Japan to adopt new register system for foreigners

[FG Lurker]

Japan to adopt new register system for foreigners
Mainichi Daily News, January 25, 2008

The Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications and the Ministry of Justice have decided to abolish the Alien Registration Act's system of residence administration, and adopt a register system similar to the basic resident register system for Japanese, it has been learned.

Registration of foreigners under the act, which formerly involved fingerprinting, will end and certificates of alien registration for special permanent residents such as North and South Koreans residing in Japan will be done away with, though it is yet undecided whether new certificates will be issued in their place.

[...]

Officials say this will prevent people from being left out of national health insurance, nursing insurance and child welfare benefit systems.

The most significant feature of the register system is that foreigners living in Japan would go from a state of simply being administered to being regarded as "residents," thereby making it easier for them receive administrative services.

(Full Story)

I wonder if this is only for "Special Permanent Residents" or if we all get this?

Sounds like the gov't wants to make sure everyone gets the opportunity to pay into the pension ponzi scheme...

[Greji]

Japan to adopt new register system for foreigners
Mainichi Daily News, January 25, 2008

It's about time they have decided to deal with us unruly aliens...
They'll probably want to go as far as fingerprint and photograph us at the ports.

[canman]

That is what this is pure and simple. They won't offer us any more services, but once they get you down as a permanent resident they will force you to pay into the pension system. Luckily I have avoided it so far, but I guess that day of reckoning is coming soon.

[Greji]

That is what this is pure and simple. They won't offer us any more services, but once they get you down as a permanent resident they will force you to pay into the pension system. Luckily I have avoided it so far, but I guess that day of reckoning is coming soon.

I don't know why that part of it should be all that bad. At least from the US point of view, because of the relatively new treaty, paying into that fund also credits your Social Security account in the states, so that when it comes time to retire, it will be computed with your social security, whether you retire in Japan under the Japan system, or the US under Social Security, you draw the aggregate retirement.

I don't know if Canada has a similar treaty, although I do know we have discussed this on another thread before and if it was explained there, I'm sorry that I don't recall (which is a polite way of saying that I'm too lazy to look it up).

[james]

because of the relatively new treaty, paying into that fund also credits your Social Security account in the states, so that when it comes time to retire, it will be computed with your social security, whether you retire in Japan under the Japan system, or the US under Social Security, you draw the aggregate retirement.

and depedning on your age, in either case receive absolutely nothing as both pensions will likely be bankrupt long before it's time to collect. pardon my cynicsm and jadedness, but i'd just as soon not have any government touching my money and using it to bail out those who couldn't see past their next paycheque. let me keep it and invest it myself and manage my own retirement, thanks.

I don't know if Canada has a similar treaty, although I do know we have discussed this on another thread before and if it was explained there, I'm sorry that I don't recall (which is a polite way of saying that I'm too lazy to look it up).

to the best of my recollection, canada has had a reciprocity agreement for nenkin / c.p.p. (canadian ponzi plan) for at least a few years. i'm also too lazy and can't be arsed to look it up.

[Mulboyne]

The AFP report emphasizes this point:

Japan is looking to tighten controls on foreign residents to crack down on undocumented aliens and ensure that all households receive public services, Justice Minister Kunio Hatoyama said Friday. [The current system] requires foreign residents to carry registration cards which are issued by municipal offices. [It] is often criticized as ineffective as foreigners do not need to re-register when moving and local offices often do not check with the central Immigration Bureau on applicants' legal status. "It doesn't make sense that the foreign registration card is issued to people the Immigration Bureau considers illegal stayers," Hatoyama told reporters.

[Taro Toporific]

I ... from the US point of view, because of the relatively new treaty, paying into that fund also credits your Social Security account in the states, so that when it comes time to retire, it will be computed with your social security, whether you retire in Japan under the Japan system, or the US under Social Security, you draw the aggregate retirement...

I have been looking into this and I have found that I've already "fully-vested" at the highest rate of Social Security monthly benefit at this year's rate of about $2000/m (it adjusts for inflation each year). Most US gaijin working fulltime in Japan could draw a draw the aggregate retirement "swap" at the highest rate of US Social Security monthly benefit if they have paid into the Japanese system for 18+ years (YMMV).
Bottom Line: Japan's system sucks, but the longer you pay into the Japan system, the better your swap/aggregate retirement is if you are a citizen of one of retirement "swap" countries like the US, Germany, etc.

[TennoChinko]

That is what this is pure and simple. They won't offer us any more services, but once they get you down as a permanent resident they will force you to pay into the pension system. Luckily I have avoided it so far, but I guess that day of reckoning is coming soon.

My understanding was that unless your employer was automatically enrolling you in the pension plan, there is no strict legal measure that can force you to enroll in the program. Certainly, many ward offices and the SIA indicate that enrollment is mandatory - but it's similar to the NHK fees ... there aren't any penalties for refusing to enroll.

[Greji]

pardon my cynicsm and jadedness, but i'd just as soon not have any government touching my money and using it to bail out those who couldn't see past their next paycheque.

Also, my sentiments to a tee, but unfortunately have careers that spanned between two governments, they deducted it automatically, so I really didn't have a choice

let me keep it and invest it myself and manage my own retirement, thanks.

I also believe in that as well, but when Bush proposed it, the Screaming Libs in the US like GJ and that east coast Pelican went into orbit about him trying to do away with social security and screwing the old people.

[ttjereth]

I don't know why that part of it should be all that bad. At least from the US point of view, because of the relatively new treaty, paying into that fund also credits your Social Security account in the states, so that when it comes time to retire, it will be computed with your social security, whether you retire in Japan under the Japan system, or the US under Social Security, you draw the aggregate retirement.

Anybody know if you are generally better off (in terms of the amount you will receive, all arguements about whether either system will survive long enough for me to retire) choosing to receive JP nenkin or U.S. SS?

[GuyJean]

.. I also believe in that as well, but when Bush proposed it, the Screaming Libs in the US like GJ and that east coast Pelican went into orbit about him trying to do away with social security and screwing the old people.

I was just looking out for you..

Actually, I don't recall screaming that loud; Let the people save for their own retirement. We all know how good US citizens are at saving for the future.. BTW, how's Bush's 'ownership society' going?

GJ

[Greji]

I was just looking out for you..

Why do I think I should check my six?

We all know how good US citizens are at saving for the future..

That's correct, so since you're wanting to look out for me, I'll quick working and you should then pay for my future right?

[ttjereth]

I have been looking into this and I have found that I've already "fully-vested" at the highest rate of Social Security monthly benefit at this year's rate of about $2000/m (it adjusts for inflation each year). Most US gaijin working fulltime in Japan could draw a draw the aggregate retirement "swap" at the highest rate of US Social Security monthly benefit if they have paid into the Japanese system for 18+ years (YMMV).
Bottom Line: Japan's system sucks, but the longer you pay into the Japan system, the better your swap/aggregate retirement is if you are a citizen of one of retirement "swap" countries like the US, Germany, etc.

Whoops, didn't see this reply before posting my earlier message. I think this about answers my question

So now for a new question, under the new deal with being able to swap nenkin payments into SS, can you collect the SS if you are still living in Japan?

[Greji]

Whoops, didn't see this reply before posting my earlier message. I think this about answers my question

So now for a new question, under the new deal with being able to swap nenkin payments into SS, can you collect the SS if you are still living in Japan?

I think we had a long thread on this before. It is my understanding you draw one, or the other based on your status at the time and which ever it is will combine the payments under both systems. You used to be able to draw both if you were eligible, but most FGs never got the longevity to draw the Japanese nenkin, however, under the new system, you only get one.

[Mulboyne]

I thought I'd seen all this stuff about a national register and IC card for foreigners before so I went digging through the FG archives. I found it interesting reading given what has happened and the status of current policy initiatives. Just in case you will too, here's a time line including the fingerprint proposals showing how the two have always been interwined:

December 2004:

FG Thread: Japan will fingerprint and photograph all foreigners!
"Japan will fingerprint and photograph all foreigners entering the country and allow for the immediate deportation of suspected terrorists as part of a comprehensive plan focused on foreigners, according to the government's counter-terrorism taskforce." (Mainichi)

January 2005:

FG Thread: Fingerprint cards to speed citizen reentry
"To facilitate reentry procedures for Japanese travelers at international airports in Japan, the Justice Ministry agreed Friday to introduce cards with fingerprint data and an express immigration control system that will identify travelers by their fingerprints, ministry officials said...The system will facilitate reentry procedures for Japanese travelers who pose no security threat, freeing up immigration officers to check for blacklisted foreigners such as terrorists." (Yomiuri)

[Hmm. What happened to that?]

June 2005

FG Thread: All Gaijin Required to carry IC card
"Every foreigner between a 90 day tourist and a "special permanent resident" i.e. not a third generation Korean, will be required to carry the new card."

Also in the same thread:

Gov't plans to expand fingerprinting requirement for foreigners
"Japan plans to expand fingerprinting requirements for foreigners not only upon entry into the country but upon departure as well, as part of crime prevention measures, ruling party lawmakers said Wednesday. The government and the Liberal Democratic Party reached the agreement at a session of the party's panel on foreigners staying illegally in Japan."

This too from the Yomiuri:

"The Liberal Democratic Party on Wednesday submitted to the government a plan to introduce an integrated circuit card containing fingerprint data for foreigners in the party's new proposals on immigration control measures. The LDP submitted the proposals to Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda on the day. The proposals are aimed at cracking down on foreigners who enter Japan with malicious intent" (from this post)

Later in the month from Kyodo:

"The Japanese government decided Tuesday to set up a working team to consider ways of tightening its control of foreign residents as an anticrime step. The team will consider such measures as requiring long-stay foreigners in Japan to carry identification cards equipped with integrated circuit chips, government officials said. Envisaged to comprise senior officials from various ministries, the team is expected to come up with specific steps in about a year and present a bill to revise the foreign resident registration law, possibly in the regular Diet session in 2007, one official said. The ruling Liberal Democratic Party earlier proposed that the government require all foreigners staying in Japan for more than 90 days to carry ID cards with chips recording their identity data. The LDP and the government claim the new policy is aimed at keeping track of foreigners as part of its measures to prevent terrorism and crimes. The working team will also consider easing restrictions on foreign residents such as enabling them to stay longer in Japan, the officials said." (from this post)

July 2005

Press Trust of India: Japan enforces IDs on foreigners
"Travellers who are staying in Japan for medium- and long-term periods, please accept free IC cards at the airport and always carry them." An announcement like this may soon be heard on planes before they land in Japan. This is because the government and the ruling Liberal Democratic Party are studying the introduction of a new information management system to prevent crimes committed by illegal foreign residents and terrorism. The authorities plan to finish working out a Bill for the system in two years. But political analysts say there are many problems to be worked out before the legislation can be introduced.

The LDP's special committee for security measures compiled a draft Bill that would require foreign visitors staying in Japan for more than 90 days to carry 'IC Cards' that contain their names, nationalities and work places, as well as require them to register their fingerprints. Korean residents of Japan will be exempted from these obligations. The draft also calls for establishing an intelligence centre to centralise all the personal data. When a foreigner is involved in a crime, immigration authorities and police will work together in the investigations using information stored at the centre, the draft says. The Bill also touches on greater tie-ups between the centre, government ministries and relevant agencies, said sources at the Prime Minister's official residence. (Taro picked this article up in his post here)

[Everything then went below the radar for a year or so]

June 2006

Central registry for foreigners eyed in 2007 (Asahi)

"The government plans to compile a central database of all registered foreigners by 2007, aiming to improve services to foreign residents, sources said... The move will extend to all foreign nationals who arrived in Japan in and after the 1980s, and include current addresses and duration of stay, the sources said. The central database is expected to help facilitate services for foreign residents, such as promoting language training and social insurance programs, sources said. At the same time, the information could also assist in tracking down foreigners suspected in criminal investigations...Municipal governments will be responsible only for registering and managing data on Chinese, Korean and other residents holding special long-term residency permits" (from this post)

[ttjereth]

I think we had a long thread on this before. It is my understanding you draw one, or the other based on your status at the time and which ever it is will combine the payments under both systems. You used to be able to draw both if you were eligible, but most FGs never got the longevity to draw the Japanese nenkin, however, under the new system, you only get one.

I was under the impression that foreigners (who weren't naturalized as Japanese citizens) couldn't even collect nenkin until the recent (past few years?) changes and the the only option originally was the "refund" when you returned to your own country. That belief isn't based on any specific source, but was just something I had aggregated over time here and being given bits and pieces of (very likely incorrect) information from people at city hall, JET, etc.

I have no clue where I'll be by the time I am able to collect from either system, but since the U.S. SS payout seems to be significantly better than the nenkin payout, it would be good to know if I should be in the U.S. at the time I become eligible, or if I can collect U.S. SS here as a resident of Japan (but not a citizen).

I actually know an old Japanese guy who collects US SS here, so I figure something should be possible...

[Mulboyne]

Here's a Yomiuri piece on the new cards:

Govt to issue new ID cards to sniff out illegals

The government intends to strengthen its efforts to prevent foreigners from staying here illegally by unifying administrative systems for foreign residents in the nation, according to a draft bill to revise the immigration law obtained by The Yomiuri Shimbun on Monday. The draft legislation to revise the Immigration Control and Refugee Recognition Law states that the justice minister will issue new residence cards to aliens staying in Japan for mid- to long-term periods of time. The current alien registration certificates issued by municipal governments will be abolished, and foreigners will instead use the new cards as identification. The draft bill also includes provisions to imprison or deport people who forge the envisaged cards. The government plans to submit the bill during the current Diet session, according to sources.

The new residence cards will carry the foreigner's name, date of birth, gender, nationality, address, status of residence and period of stay. The cards will be issued to aliens staying in Japan legally. The cards will enable authorities to detect illegal stayers by checking whether they possess the cards. The draft bill will require foreign residents to report to the Immigration Bureau any changes such as to their place of employment, school or address. Under the current law, foreign residents are required to report such changes only to municipal governments. However, this system has bogged down attempts by the Immigration Bureau to keep a comprehensive track of foreign residents. The revised law also will allow the bureau to investigate, on a voluntary basis, institutions and other bodies that are responsible for helping foreigners enter the country. So-called special permanent residents--Koreans living in Japan--will not be required to acquire the envisaged residence cards. Instead, new identification certificates will be issued to them.

To reduce the time and paperwork involved in renewal procedures, the draft bill calls for extending the period of stay to five years for aliens who are currently allowed to stay in Japan for up to three years. The draft legislation also includes a provision to create a new status of residence for aliens coming to Japan on the government's foreign trainee system. It stipulates that the Minimum Wages Law and other labor-related laws will be applied to such foreign trainees. The foreign trainee system is aimed at transferring Japan's technical expertise to other countries. Under the system, foreign trainees participate in workshops and training programs at companies for up to three years. However, the system has been criticized because some companies take advantage of these trainees by making them work excessively long hours for low pay. For the first year of their stay, the foreign trainees are not officially recognized as laborers, and therefore they fall outside the reach of labor-related laws.

Meanwhile, the status of residence for international students will no longer be divided into "college students," who attend a college or advanced vocational school, and "pre-college students," who attend a high school or Japanese language school. Under the envisaged new system, the two categories will be integrated to allow foreign students to skip procedures to change their status of residence when they go on to higher education.

[Mulboyne]

I have a feeling there may be another thread where this has already been posted. In case not, here is a link to the MoJ pamphlet describing, in English, the new rules:
Changes to the Immigration Control Act (PDF)

[Iraira]

I have a feeling there may be another thread where this has already been posted. In case not, here is a link to the MoJ pamphlet describing, in English, the new rules:
Changes to the Immigration Control Act (PDF)

With the exception of the IC chip, seems nice. How many times can I change my sex?

[omae mona]

Thanks Mulb. Hadn't seen this information consolidated in one place like this until now. As expected, for the most part it loosens he rules for people here legally (longer visa terms, longer period of validity for the gaijin card itself).

I did notice this pamphlet stipulates some rules that seem a little tighter than in the past about spouse visas. In case of a divorce you explicitly need to notify the government within 14 days. "Failing to engage in activities as a spouse" is one of the clear "conditions of revocation of status". I wonder if they actually intend to enforce this?

[Ketou]

"Failing to engage in activities as a spouse" is one of the clear "conditions of revocation of status". I wonder if they actually intend to enforce this?

Certainly the ambiguity of "activities of a spouse" give them a lot of room to maneuver.

[Iraira]

"Activities of a spouse"...
1) Sexless marriage ----->deportation
2) Don't help spouse with the cleaning, cooking, etc., ----> deportation
3) Caught cheating ----->deportation

What about pushing spouse down a flight of stairs to collect the insurance money?

[Mike Oxlong]

It think a little dv now and again should cover all necessary "activities" nicely!

[Mock Cockpit]

I think the IC chip in my new card is going to accidentally be hit with a balpeen hammer.

[FG Lurker]

I did notice this pamphlet stipulates some rules that seem a little tighter than in the past about spouse visas. In case of a divorce you explicitly need to notify the government within 14 days. "Failing to engage in activities as a spouse" is one of the clear "conditions of revocation of status". I wonder if they actually intend to enforce this?

I'm not sure what will happen to ex-spouses, but I suspect the "Failing to engage in activities as a spouse" clause is oriented towards easy deportation of people involved in "visa marriages".

[omae mona]

"Activities of a spouse"...
1) Sexless marriage ----->deportation
2) Don't help spouse with the cleaning, cooking, etc., ----> deportation
3) Caught cheating ----->deportation

Iraira, you got it backwards. This is Japan. The above 3 items are precisely the traditional Japanese activities of a spouse. Signs of sex, housework, or faithfulness are "red flags" for J-immigration when they are looking for sham marriages!

[sublight]

The one thing that bugs me about the proposed system is that all status changes have to be registered at the immigration office rather than the town hall. This turns something I can do in half an hour and still be on time for work into 4+ hour job (for the Tokyo downtown office at least).

Plus, picture how crowded with visa applicants that place was the last time you went. Now picture it with twice as many people because everyone who used to get everything done locally now has to travel all the way to that goddamn island.

Whoever came up with this law either has never been to an immigration office, or simply doesn't care.

[(1VB)freels]

I think that the economy will hit the shitter even deeper with all the money that they will be spending on deporting eveyone!!! Watch out for long lines at the airports!! Full of FG's!!!!

[Greji]

I think that the economy will hit the shitter even deeper with all the money that they will be spending on deporting eveyone!!! Watch out for long lines at the airports!! Full of FG's!!!!

Naaah, they only do that in extreme cases, like Cyka!

[Iraira]

Iraira, you got it backwards. This is Japan. The above 3 items are precisely the traditional Japanese activities of a spouse. Signs of sex, housework, or faithfulness are "red flags" for J-immigration when they are looking for sham marriages!

So you're saying that I don't have to do the dishes tonight?