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Dave Spector Attacks Japanese TV Dramas

Movies, TV, music, anime other random J-pop culture phenomenons. Also film/video production, technical discussion, cast and crew calls, etc.
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Dave Spector Attacks Japanese TV Dramas

Postby Mulboyne » Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:38 pm

[floatr]Image[/floatr]The Tokyo Shimbun reports (Japanese) that Dave Spector was a guest speaker at a regular convention of commercial broadcasters. The main question addressed this year was "who wants to watch what on Japanese TV?" and touched on issues like the cosy way TBS dealt with the Kameda boxing family. Dave Spector, along with some other panellists, felt that Japanese TV was not catering enough to the adult audience and tended to treat viewers like children. He singled out TV dramas as one of the worst forms of television on Japan today especially because of the poor quality acting, in particular by teen idols and fashion models. He said anyone looking at overseas dramas shown on cable and TV Tokyo can't help but notice the difference in standards. He suggested that even people working in TV found overseas TV programmes more interesting than their own output. He also expressed the view that Japanese TV was too hostile to the internet. He gave the example of the US where cable TV had eaten into the audience for terrestrial broadcasters but now the big 4 networks had fought back by releasing material on the web shortly after showing a programme.

This story has been picked up on 2 Channel where, interestingly, it seems that most people broadly agree with Dave Spector.
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Postby gomichild » Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:43 pm

Good grief even I agree with Dave Spector here.

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Postby ttjereth » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:02 pm

Agreeing with Dave Spector makes me unhappy :(

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[color=DarkRed][size=84][size=75]But in [/SIZE]
[/color][/SIZE](SOME OTHER FUCKING PLACE WE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT) the (NOUN) is also (ADJECTIVE), so you are being ([font=Times New Roman][size=84][color=DarkRed][size=75]RACIST/ANTI-JAPANESE/NAZI/BLAH BLAH BLAH) just because (BLAH BLAH BLAH) is (OPTIONAL PREPOSITION) (JAPAN/JAPANESE)"[/SIZE]
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Postby omae mona » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:15 pm

I suspect he couldn't have gotten away with that a few years ago. But now that half of the real estate inside video stores seems to be taken up by DVDs of foreign drama series (US, Korea, China, etc.), and several cable networks dedicate significant amounts of their broadcast time to these series, the cat's out of the bag. I would bet that a significant percentage of the TV viewing public has watched some U.S. series recently, and they'd have to be brain dead not to notice the difference.

I don't think Dave Spector was going out on a limb, but it's possible that nobody until now has explicitly said what he said.
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Postby DrP » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:24 pm

I totally agree with Spector on this .. the bizarre thing is that Japan has one of the highest levels of technical production capability but at the same time an arcane production work flow that depends on, err 'talent' forced down the network's throats by near gangster-run enterprises. At the same time - the old cronies making the executive decisions are just as corrupt and completely uncreative as the talent agencies' talent.. Lip My Stockings...
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Postby Jack » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:29 pm

There is a lot more dramas produced in Japan than in the U.S. (if you exclude sitcomes) so inevitably not all will be great hits but there are some very nice and well-made Japanese dramas. Maybe Korean dramas are popular now or were couple of years ago but Japanese drama still remains very popular in Hong Kong, Taiwan and other Asian countries. I think dismissing all J-dramas as crap is overkill. I, for one, watch many of them to keep my Japanese language skills current and for "eye-candy"' value.
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Postby DrP » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:38 pm

The only dramas I know that are popular in other parts of Asia and have any 'eye candy' are produced by companies like SOD, Moodyz, etc. Everything else is basically crap.
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Postby 2triky » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:35 am

Gotta agree with Spector and others here who have chimed in on this topic. Japanese TV dramas have largely become vehicles for young idols to further their exposure, which often has nothing to do with whether they can act or not. Japanese TV dramas have become hijacked by idols represented by the likes of Johnny's Jimusho and other similar talent agencies. Comparing dramas today with those released in the last decade one can discern an obvious difference in terms of the quality of the acting and the storytelling.
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Postby Jack » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:43 am

DrP wrote:The only dramas I know that are popular in other parts of Asia and have any 'eye candy' are produced by companies like SOD, Moodyz, etc. Everything else is basically crap.


You seem to know all the players in that market. As much as I would like to defend J-dramas I do think many of them are super Cheesy and over the top sentimental and so on. But many of the actresses that I have know are because of the dramas. Norika Fujiwara, Miki Nakatani, Riyoko Hirosue and Nanako Matsushima, just to name a few. (Note that aside from Kimutaku I don't know any male actors' name.) :-)
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Postby Iraira » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:45 am

2triky wrote:Gotta agree with Spector and others here who have chimed in on this topic. Japanese TV dramas have become largely become vehicles for young idols to further their exposure, which often has nothing to do with whether they can act or not. Japanese TV dramas have become hijacked by idols represented by the likes of Johnny's Jimusho and other similar talent agencies. Comparing dramas today with those released in the last decade one can discern an obvious difference in terms of the quality of the acting and the storytelling.



The storylines are too contrived. They pick a segment of the working populace that a people can somewhat identify with and make a ganbarou story out of it, usually with a bittersweet ending. Can't everyone just die of Ebola or be kidnapped by N. Kor agents in the end? When I got some grasp of the J-go, I tried, I mean I tried to watch these dramas, but too many models/popstars trying to act like regular OLs was too much for me to suspend disbelief.
Even the comedy shows have become clones of themselves. If I see another bedpan fall from the ceiling and bounce off someone's head, I swear...The 3 Stooges should sue the fuck out of all the Kansai comedians for stealing their schtick (yeah, I know the Stooges are all dead... except for Iggy).
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Postby 2triky » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:53 am

Iraira wrote:The storylines are too contrived. They pick a segment of the working populace that a people can somewhat identify with and make a ganbarou story out of it, usually with a bittersweet ending. Can't everyone just die of Ebola or be kidnapped by N. Kor agents in the end? When I got some grasp of the J-go, I tried, I mean I tried to watch these dramas, but too many models/popstars trying to act like regular OLs was too much for me to suspend disbelief.
Even the comedy shows have become clones of themselves. If I see another bedpan fall from the ceiling and bounce off someone's head, I swear...The 3 Stooges should sue the fuck out of all the Kansai comedians for stealing their schtick (yeah, I know the Stooges are all dead... except for Iggy).


Yeah I know what you mean. In addition to that, the proliferation of high school dramas is unbelievable. I understand pandering to a certain demographic but when you have countless dramas set in high school, populated with young "talent" that are sorely unable to act, it's bound to lead to a lack of creative storytelling or quality acting. How many of these high school dramas can they possibly clone...it's utterly ridiculous.

Edit: An inordinate number of dramas are now based on manga....very little comes out that is fresh or unique.
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Postby hundefar » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:22 am

ttjereth wrote:Agreeing with Dave Spector makes me unhappy :(


Oh yeah? Well how do you think I feel? I want to do him up the behind :(
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Postby james » Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:04 am

as much as i don't care for dave sphincter, he's spot on about this. the japanese make great tvs but absolutely crappy tv. they've taken banality to new heights and then some. i was much happier before i could understand it and that was quite some time ago now. i especially cringe when they try to throw in some tidbit to make the drama "international".

when my wife has the afternoon dramas on i ask her how the hell she can watch them without being insulted.

while i'd say in north america they've gone well overboard with the reality shows and the audition style shows there are also some shows that are quite engaging and a few which actually require one to think. not the same j-cop drama / "suspense" rehashed for what must be the millionth time by now or the endless barrage of infantile shows that qualify as comedy here.
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Postby ttjereth » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:49 pm

Jack wrote:You seem to know all the players in that market. As much as I would like to defend J-dramas I do think many of them are super Cheesy and over the top sentimental and so on. But many of the actresses that I have know are because of the dramas. Norika Fujiwara, Miki Nakatani, Riyoko Hirosue and Nanako Matsushima, just to name a few. (Note that aside from Kimutaku I don't know any male actors' name.) :-)


Other than Nakatani (who started out as a singer) every other "actress" you listed started out as either a pinup (gravure) or other model. :D

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[color=DarkRed][size=84][size=75]But in [/SIZE]
[/color][/SIZE](SOME OTHER FUCKING PLACE WE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT) the (NOUN) is also (ADJECTIVE), so you are being ([font=Times New Roman][size=84][color=DarkRed][size=75]RACIST/ANTI-JAPANESE/NAZI/BLAH BLAH BLAH) just because (BLAH BLAH BLAH) is (OPTIONAL PREPOSITION) (JAPAN/JAPANESE)"[/SIZE]
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Postby ttjereth » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:52 pm

hundefar wrote:Oh yeah? Well how do you think I feel? I want to do him up the behind :(

In light of that, I really, really don't want to know how you feel
;)

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[color=DarkRed][size=84][size=75]But in [/SIZE]
[/color][/SIZE](SOME OTHER FUCKING PLACE WE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT) the (NOUN) is also (ADJECTIVE), so you are being ([font=Times New Roman][size=84][color=DarkRed][size=75]RACIST/ANTI-JAPANESE/NAZI/BLAH BLAH BLAH) just because (BLAH BLAH BLAH) is (OPTIONAL PREPOSITION) (JAPAN/JAPANESE)"[/SIZE]
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Postby Iraira » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:08 pm

hundefar wrote:Oh yeah? Well how do you think I feel? I want to do him up the behind :(


The thermoplastic resin in his hair might make an excellent lube.
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Postby Western All Stars » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:57 pm

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Postby Iraira » Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:56 pm

Takechanpoo:
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Postby sublight » Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:46 pm

Western All Stars wrote:Anyone else ever notice every time a j-drama has a high class scene like a really fancy restaurant or dinner party, there are always white people in the background?

Notice them? Hell, I've made a nice chunk of change being them.
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Postby Naniwan Kid » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:17 pm

Never thought I would agree with that a-hole....
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Postby Naniwan Kid » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:19 pm

sublight wrote:Notice them? Hell, I've made a nice chunk of change being them.


That's been true since Kurosawa movies and beyond...

I have my favorite Gaijin moments in "High and Low" as well as "Tampopo" but always in the dramas...
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Postby Behan » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:38 pm

DrP wrote:The only dramas I know that are popular in other parts of Asia and have any 'eye candy' are produced by companies like SOD, Moodyz, etc. Everything else is basically crap.


Hey, I have some of those educational videos.:cool:
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Postby gkanai » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:55 pm

There are many problems with Japanese media but one key problem is that quality is not rewarded, in either TV or music. The management companies that have the leading actors and musicians and singers control what gets released, when, where, etc. So it's not a meritocracy. It's an oligarchy. That's why Japanese popular music or TV doesn't get any better.
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Postby Mulboyne » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:59 pm

Yomiuri: Private TV turns to documentaries
Private TV stations have begun broadcasting documentaries during "golden time" prime-time TV viewing hours, a sign they have changed their policy from trying to attract young people to one catering to adults. In an article in the latest edition of "Chosa Joho" (Research Information), published by TBS, author Wahei Tatematsu said daily TV fare was like young people's untidy rooms being shown to the public. All private TV programming is uninteresting, he said. "The only things they consider are from which angle and part of the room they'll broadcast. Talks by TV personalities are all the same, regardless of the program," Tatematsu wrote. TBS has decided to significantly change its autumn programming schedule to raise its low viewer ratings. On Wednesday evenings, it will broadcast four new programs targeting adults, including the documentary program "Wednesday Nonfiction" at 9 p.m. The first such documentary, scheduled for Oct. 15, will focus on the U.S. presidential election. This is the first time in 12 years TBS will have broadcast a documentary during the golden time hours of 7 p.m. to 10 p.m.

NHK has taken the position that documentaries, such as its "NHK Special" series, are its primary mission, but private TV stations have been reluctant to air documentaries because such programs cannot draw high viewing rates. Other networks' prize winning documentaries, such as "NNN Document," produced by NTV and its affiliated stations, and TV Asahi's "Telementary" program, are aired at midnight. Takashi Yoshizaki, head of TBS' Programming Division, said the gap between broadcasters and viewers had widened. "Private TV stations have not provided programs capable of satisfying the expectations of middle-aged and elderly people, who are concerned about social problems, such as those related to pension benefits and the medical system," he said. According to Yoshizaki, TV program sponsors also have changed. "Variety shows starring popular TV personalities can no longer readily attract sponsors. For its part, the 'Wednesday Nonfiction' series is selling well among sponsors," he said.

Starting Nov. 3 at 7 p.m. on Sundays, TV Asahi will broadcast "Hodohatsu, Documentary Sengen" (Documentary Declaration from the Newsroom), which will highlight "people in the news" and their associates, shedding light on lesser-known aspects of society. Wowow TV also began on Sunday a documentary titled "Kuesuto: Tankyushatachi" (Quest: Seekers). The reason private TV stations have turned to documentaries to try to increase viewers is that NHK's documentaries have enjoyed high ratings among middle-aged and elderly people. According to Video Research Ltd., in the Kanto region, NHK scored the highest average viewing rate of 13.6 percent during the golden time hours in the first half of the year, while Fuji TV was second at 13.2 percent. At a regular press conference Oct. 2, NHK President Shigeo Fukuchi said the network's news programs, "Kurozu Appu Gendai" (Today's Close-up), the "NHK Special" series and the "Atsuhime" TV drama have enjoyed high viewership. "This is a result of efforts by NHK staff to produce good programs instead of those targeting high viewing rates," he said.

Producer Tsutomu Konno, vice chairman of TV Man Union Inc., said the number of young people wanting to produce TV programs has been declining. "On the other hand, adults lament that there are no programs they want to see because there are only variety shows," he said. According to Konno, public opinion of TV programming has fallen. Private TV stations obsessed with raising viewer rates have finally come to realize they have to change their policies, he said. However, Konno warned that viewers would turn away from documentaries if producers only made tear-jerking documentaries with predictable endings aimed at trying to strike a chord in the hearts of viewers. "Documentaries cover a wide range of areas and have depth. I hope producers of each TV station will have the ability to select interesting themes and recruit talented people who don't work for TV stations," he said.

It takes time for new programs to take hold among viewers. Low-key documentaries that need digesting especially require time to be appreciated. If private TV stations plan to take on the challenge, knowing the bumpy road ahead, they should place priority on good programming content and be prepared to be patient for a long time.
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Postby Mulboyne » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:48 am

[YThq]bz7-FlPX74U[/YThq]

Dave Spector has been a consistent critic of Japanese TV dramas and his views have once again become a talking point on the web. In the interview shown above, Spector explains that Japanese news reporting is generally good and live broadcasts can be entertaining but dramas are still very poor. You'll need Japanese to follow what he's saying but, basically, he believes that Japanese quiz programming is as good in its class as anything else in the world but dramas are let down by poor acting. He thinks 20% of actors in dramas know they are bad while the remaining 80% haven't a clue just how bad they are.

[YThq]59igxz1kifQ[/YThq]

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Postby Mulboyne » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:49 am

Itai News has links to a report (Japanese) which says TV Tokyo executives have come to the conclusion that they aren't showing programmes which people want to see. One department head has noted that low ratings for the terrestrial channels aren't a sign audiences have abandoned television because they have been watching satellite broadcasts in increasing numbers. Instead, he has concluded that they seem to be sick of sub-standard quiz programmes and variety shows where the only people having fun are self-satisfied talentless tarento. The tone of the article suggests that the penny has been a long time dropping for TV Tokyo. To counter this trend, the station has announced the introduction of more challenging programming aimed at engaging more thoughtful audiences although details are a little thin at this stage.
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Postby sublight » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:44 am

Just as long as TV Tokyo doesn't get rid of AdoMachiku Tengoku. That's the one show I'll actually set aside time to watch each week.
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Postby samuraiwig » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:45 am

I still find Dave's appearance a bit bizarre, but there's a lot to respect in his achievements in Japan and he makes a good, balanced argument here.
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Postby FG Lurker » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:08 pm

I've been in Japan long enough that I haven't lived through the downward spiral of US TV (large injections of "Reality TV") but there is no doubt that the vast majority of Japanese TV is absolute crap. Suits me though, it's just one less thing I waste time on...
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Re: Dave Spector Attacks Japanese TV Dramas

Postby Buraku » Mon Dec 26, 2022 8:12 pm

Netflix to air second season of Nippon TV’s ‘Old Enough!’
https://www.nme.com/en_asia/news/tv/net ... gh-3365913

Show Featuring Toddlers Left Alone To Run Errands?

‘Pachinko’ Wins Ensemble Cast Award as Independent Spirit TV Nominations Are Announced

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/indepe ... 235459306/

It has some Japanese Although its a Korean-American production and filmed mostly in Busan, Seoul, Quebec and NYC

Why Japanese TV Sucks - Japanatron
https://japanatron.com/blog/japan/show- ... e-tv-sucks

Is Japanese TV Weird And Terrible? - Japanese Level Up
https://japaneselevelup.com/japanese-tv ... ible-sucks

People usually choose K-dramas over J-dramas?
https://mydramalist.com/

Japanese TV is so awful? - Quora
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Japanese-TV-so-awful

Movies about Rock Bands
https://blog.gaijinpot.com/5-japanese-m ... watch-now/
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