are americans too stupid to appreciate??

[katakori]

http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/waiwai/face/0304/17spirit.html

Despite critical acclaim and smashing box office records in Japan, when it came to the United States, "Spirited Away" has just smashed.
(...)
"Spirited Away" sank faster than Atlantis when first released on the U.S. market last year, but the week following its Oscar win saw Disney using all the might of Hercules to plug the flick, putting it in over 700 theaters in the U.S. and Canada.

" 'Spirited Away' picked up an unprecedented 30.4 billion yen at the box office in Japan and everybody thought that force would be enough to make it a commercial success in the United States when it opened there in September last year. Things didn't quite turn out that way, though," a movie industry source tells Shukan Shincho. "Winning the Oscar gave everybody new hope and they decided on a new assault on the market."

[ramchop]

Where do you hail from? How well did "Spirited Away" do there? :P

[Big Booger]

Spirit Away tanked because Disney hypes it up to be a "Little Mermaid" or "The Lion King"

They don't prepare audiences for that type of animation. Little kids go in expecting to see another Disney dumb-downed cartoon, and they get something totally the opposite.

I don't think Americans are any less or more stupid than anyone else. I think this was just screwed up marketing just like the last Ghibli film that flopped in the US, Mononoke Hime, I think it was.



And as always, what works in one neck of the woods, often will not in another.

[Taro Toporific]

Re: are americans too stupid to appreciate??

http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/waiwai/face/0304/17spirit.html

Despite critical acclaim "sp has just smashed.

Wot no car wrecks or silicon titties?Bahh."

[Naniwan Kid]

What does "smashing box office records" in Japan have to do with anything? I think the movie has been incredibly successful for Japanimation film. I do think it would have done better if:

1) It was marketed at all. I understand there weren't that many commercials and it wasn't released very wide initially. I know in my home town it was showing only in one of about 15 pr 20 multiplex theaters.

2) It had a clearer audience. Teenagers don't tend to go to animated films in the U.S., where they do in Japan. It is directed toward an older audience which doesn't usually go for animation.

3) The dubbed version in the theaters was difficult to watch. I heard many viewers saw "Wait for DVD, to have the pure form."

The DVD was just released in the U.S. along with some other older Hayao Miyakaki movies, and I imagine it's selling fine.

Akira's special edition release in the U.S. sold great, and Hollywood has picked up scripts to remake several japanese horror movies as well as "Shall We Dance" (which is strange to me, as it is SUCH a Japanese movie).

So what is the problem?

[katakori]

i come from france where it was released in april 2002...

it stayed in the box office top 20 for 12 weeks (and in the top 10 for .
(of course, the actual number figures are not as impressive as the US ones, but you have to keep in mind proportions...)

sources :
http://www.lefilmfrancais.com/260402/top20.htm
and subsequent weeks :
http://www.lefilmfrancais.com/030502/top20.htm
http://www.lefilmfrancais.com/100502/top20.htm
etc.

[katakori]

note : it was distributed my disney in europe too, as far as i know.

[ramchop]

Well I guess the French are clever then.

I saw Spirited Away on TV in Japan. My Japanese was non-existant, and I'd watch it again with subtitles (or if my Japanese magically improves). But. I didn't think it was too wonderful. Guess I'm stupid.

Beauty and the Beast was shown at 9pm on Japanese TV. And I'm sure lots of adults (and at that time, not too many children) watched it. Does that make Japanese stupid?

[katakori]

hey! my post was not "are american stupid?" we all know they are. :P it was "... to appreciate?".
and i seriously think the french audience is a little bit more educated cinema-wise. not that they are more clever, but maybe a little bit better guided or something?

chihiro is a very very wonderful animated film. watch it again (with subtitles) and enjoy the tons of excellent points in it.

why would watching a disney make people stupid? this is gai's argument style...

[Big Booger]

i come from france where it was released in april 2002...

That explains everything j/k

You French are the purveyors of the unique.

I give you women with hairy armpits. Now that sir is real class, sophistication and embodies truly enlightened people

LMAO

And Disney movies don't make you stupid. They are just simple and easy for children to follow. The storyline has a simple plot, simple character development, and helps kids to adapt to more difficult movies later as they develop.

Cartoons in America are basically seen for children. Sento Chihiro no kamikakushi is far from a child's movie. It is made for teenagers and adults. That is why this movie flopped in the US. I guess the French are more like Japanese in that they love cartoons.

[katakori]

I give you women with hairy armpits

that's germany.

but i'm a fan of japanese shaved forearms too, don't worry...

[Andocrates]

Anime is a nice niche market in America, the movie was intended to go stright to DVD despite what Disney says. It never even came to most cities in America. The city I live in, when not in Japan (Little Rock, AR) is a fairly large market and it never came here.

When I watch anime dubbed into english it's just a cartoon, I'm not sure what happens, but dubbed anime sucks ass. And that movie was aimed at the kiddies,

Now the Cowboy Beebop movie they could have done a theatrical release and done allright. In America it's rated R and I have still never seen Faye Valentines boobs

[Crispy]

I'm glad it didn't do well in the box office in America, if it had (and if any other anime had), future Japanese movies would be made with America in mind even more so than now, and it would send the art form in directions I wouldn't care for.

[Big Booger]

http://www.fashionwindows.com/beauty/2001B/nair.asp

Have a read french tickler So it is a myth that I think is rooted in some fact. Germans and French like hairy arm pit hair or so the myth goes

Anyway, aside from all the kidding, I think it is a great film and will do very well on DVD. I think Americans are slowly coming out of our shell to accept cartoons/anime as a medium to be appreciated even in adulthood. It will just take time.

I hate watching dubbed animation. It ruins it IMHO. But it is good for small children who have the attention span of a mosquito.

[Naniwan Kid]

I come from france where it was released in april 2002...

it stayed in the box office top 20 for 12 weeks (and in the top 10 for .
(of course, the actual number figures are not as impressive as the US ones, but you have to keep in mind proportions...)

I am not sure what this proves. How many weeks was The Disorderly Orderly in the top 20 in 1964? How about The Nutty Professor in 1963?

Be careful about comparing the U.S. and France's movie savviness based on the movies thwy watch. We know how the French idolize Jerry Lewis.

[ramchop]

I hate watching dubbed animation. It ruins it IMHO. But it is good for small children who have the attention span of a mosquito.

This may be sacrilege, but I can't think of a medium more suited to dubbing than animation (apart from documentaries). It's not as if the original is perfectly lip synched.

I agree though that there just seems something slightly wrong with an American voice coming out of a Japanese cartoon girl. I'm sure they could do it a lot better.

[cstaylor]

I'm not sure why people liked this movie... but did anyone pickup the reference to "Hotaru no Haka" (a better Studio Ghibli film, but Miyazaki didn't work on it) in the densha sequence?

[vvx]

It's not just that it's an american voice w/japanese girl, it's the voice acting (gah, I didn't want to say that, makes me sound like some elite anime otaku ) Like, the people who do the voices think "Cartoon" and speak as if to a 3 year old they're talking which just ruins the thing (some good, some corny, most suck.) All IMHO. I dunno about spirited away, I haven't seen it yet.

[ramchop]

So it's not the dubbing that annoys you... it's the poor dubbing.

As I mentioned I watched the Japanese version (no subtitles, no dubbing). I think I could follow the bulk of the story anyway. Just one quick question... schizo or twin?

[Big Booger]

I can't watch Kurosawa films dubbed, and the same rule applies for anime. I'd rather have the original voices, with subs. Just my preference but I think the film gets compromised when it is dubbed. It's like when I see a Hollywood flick that has been dubbed to Japanese, or hear Ally McBeal dubbed, it sounds wretched, the characters voices hardly match the character, and you expect a Japanese voice from a Japanese character as has been mentioned above.

I think there might be some good dubs out there, but I personally have never seen one that I found worthy of recommending. ANd don't get me wrong I am not some otaku either.. I just watch ever now and again. :P

[katakori]

the thing is that cartoons are paradoxically as bad to dub as movies.

although the lips don't exactly sync, they are recorded before the animated drawings are made, and therfore, the visuals are "custom-made" on the dialogues. which enables the original actors to really act and create a character, while the dubbing one merely dubs what they see on screen.

plus, dubbing (cartoon or film) is always bad because you have to find a wording that fits to the length of the speech and if there are vowels, make the lips look like you're saying the same things. it is always a little clumsy because of that.

ram, twins. but then again, maybe not. a lot of symmetry going. the story and characters are already quite difficult to fully understand with one seeing + subtitles, so i really don't understand how you could get it all without getting all the dialogues... but there are a lot that doesn't need to be "understood", but just "felt", as in "plain" art display, which to some extent, it is.

[mercutio]

and i seriously think the french audience is a little bit more educated cinema-wise. not that they are more clever, but maybe a little bit better guided or something?

Yes you are right!! I mean only the French recognized the true acting genious of Mickey Rourke and they were also the only ones who were sufficiantly educated in the ways of cinema to fully comprehend the depth and meaning of the comedy stylings of Jerry Lewis...

Brad

[American Oyaji]

I can't watch Kurosawa films dubbed, and the same rule applies for anime. I'd rather have the original voices, with subs. Just my preference but I think the film gets compromised when it is dubbed. It's like when I see a Hollywood flick that has been dubbed to Japanese, or hear Ally McBeal dubbed, it sounds wretched, the characters voices hardly match the character, and you expect a Japanese voice from a Japanese character as has been mentioned above.

I think there might be some good dubs out there, but I personally have never seen one that I found worthy of recommending. ANd don't get me wrong I am not some otaku either.. I just watch ever now and again. :P

Indeed BB. I like watching films in their ORIGINAL language with subtitles.
It's watching the film as the director intendended.
For example, Bollywood movies like "Muthu". EXCELLENT MOVIE. In Japan they called it "Odoru Majaraja". I watched in Tamil with Japanese subtitles.
Anyway, that would be impossible to stand. If I watch a non English film, I want to see it in its pure form with subtitles.

If subtitles arent available, I'll try to puzzle the movie out. I can do this in French, German and Spanish. Anything else and I'll look for subs.

[bejiita]

they are recorded before the animated drawings are made, and therfore, the visuals are "custom-made" on the dialogues.

This is true with American animated movies but with Japanese anime, the animation is often completed before the seiyuu get to work.