If you were truly an adult

[cstaylor]

I think if you assault someone after they call you an offensive name, the slapper goes to the slammer AFAIK.

Not sure about Japan, but it depends on the police history of the assailant. If both have clean records, the police consider the offensive words as incitement to fight, but if the assailant has a previous history of fighting, the cops just drag him away.

This is second-hand information passed on to me by a friend who worked security at clubs in the San Jose, California area. Probably not official rules by any means.

[Big Booger]

I would think that if someone called you a name, you could always leave the situation, by hitting someone, you have violated the law.

"Sticks and stones may break our bones..."

[American Oyaji]

"Sticks and stones may break our bones..."

BULLSHIT

[Naniwan Kid]

Catholic Priests, like you, are trying to deny themselves of a fundamental human impulse.

Gaisarada really made his bed with this statement.
It is NOT a fundamental human impulse to be racist. In a nursery do white babies cry if they are set next to black babies? Of course not. Racism is taught and learned.

[Crispy]

It is learned, but I believe it is built on biological systems designed to disciminate between your group and other groups. On a simple level, your eyes are automatically drawn to things that are out of place, if you are at a party and someone walks in wearing purple pants and a blue turban on their head, you would find it very difficult not to give them at least a glance. Humans have to be able to immediately identify new or unexpected things and size them up quickly (i.e. based on what is on the surface and based on experience with other examples), it's a survival instinct.

[Naniwan Kid]

I believe it is built on biological systems designed to disciminate between your group and other groups

Of course we discriminate. These blue berries are delicious. These red berries are poisonous. If we didn't discriminate we'd be dead.

But we all put everything in our mouth when we are babies and figure it out. I you go to nursery school with white babies and black babies and Asian babies you are going to play with them because you are a baby and they are babies. It is if and when you are taught to shy away from them seperation happens.

I can't discrimate between off-white and eggshell. They look the same to me. If I was a designer I would have to know the difference, though. Some discrimination must be taught.

Humans have to be able to immediately identify new or unexpected things and size them up quickly (i.e. based on what is on the surface and based on experience with other examples), it's a survival instinct.

Again, I agree fully. This has usually very little to do with racism.

My friend's grandfather was beaten senseless by a black man in his pre-teen years. Since then he has been a pretty strong racist. Besides that story I have heard few stories where racism is learned through personal experience. If you go to a KKK meeting and ask "How many of your fathers were members of the KKK?" I would guess 9 out of 10 hands wouild go up.

[Big Booger]

It is learned, but I believe it is built on biological systems designed to disciminate between your group and other groups. On a simple level, your eyes are automatically drawn to things that are out of place, if you are at a party and someone walks in wearing purple pants and a blue turban on their head, you would find it very difficult not to give them at least a glance. Humans have to be able to immediately identify new or unexpected things and size them up quickly (i.e. based on what is on the surface and based on experience with other examples), it's a survival instinct.

Crispy Kreme hit the monkey in the nuts with that statement. And I personally don't give a rats ass what people call me.. There is always the ignore and walk away rule.

I think groupism is normal. We want to associate with our group and distinguish ourselves from the out group. Without this, I think we would really have a hard time identifying ourselves.

That doesn't mean one group is better than the other. It just means we are different and distinguishable. Imagine a world with only tan folks. How sad would that be? We are all hybrid, there are no pure this and pure that. WE are like Mendels peas or grandma's prized roses. We come in varieties, colors, shapes, and sizes. All as equal as the other, some more rare than others, some more common.

[GomiGirl]

I think groupism is normal. We want to associate with our group and distinguish ourselves from the out group. Without this, I think we would really have a hard time identifying ourselves.

Of course we use our eyes - but the association of traits (negative and positive) assigned to all members of a group based on your own pre-conceptions leads to rascism.

WE are like Mendels peas or grandma's prized roses. We come in varieties, colors, shapes, and sizes. All as equal as the other, some more rare than others, some more common.

I like this!!

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

I think groupism is normal. We want to associate with our group and distinguish ourselves from the out group. Without this, I think we would really have a hard time identifying ourselves.

Of course we use our eyes - but the association of traits (negative and positive) assigned to all members of a group based on your own pre-conceptions leads to rascism.

Ok. Here is the deal. In a "nut"shell just for you. The above cannot be helped. The association is as inbred to humans as the desire to breed, see out company, etc. Like any other trait, this is stronger in some people than others. But it is inate in all of us. Stop the shame, stop the lies, stop the public school madness (whether you went to public school or not you are spouting their bilge).

[American Oyaji]

My friend's grandfather was beaten senseless by a black man in his pre-teen years. Since then he has been a pretty strong racist.

Yeah, but what did he say to the guy that he felt he needed to beat his ass?

Back then, black men didn't just walk up to random white people and start beatin. 'Twas most definitely the other way around.

Anyway, we all know RACISM is taught. Some may give into the impulse to label negatively (even temporarily) a group of people after being slighted by one of that group. Some may not.

It doesn't matter as long as we treat everyone we come in contact with the same.

[DJEB]

I think groupism is normal. We want to associate with our group and distinguish ourselves from the out group. Without this, I think we would really have a hard time identifying ourselves.

Of course we use our eyes - but the association of traits (negative and positive) assigned to all members of a group based on your own pre-conceptions leads to rascism.

Ok. Here is the deal. In a "nut"shell just for you. The above cannot be helped. The association is as inbred to humans as the desire to breed, see out company, etc. Like any other trait, this is stronger in some people than others. But it is inate in all of us. Stop the shame, stop the lies, stop the public school madness (whether you went to public school or not you are spouting their bilge).

The problem is with people who don't think rationally. For example, most of the Israelis I have met have been utter asses. I don't believe that this gives me any insight into Israelis, though. The data sample is far too small and is limited to young men and women only. I was conscious of this when I had my first Israeli house guest who was the kindest, gentlest man I've ever met.

Furthermore, I agree with A.O. here. Racism is something you are taught or teach yourself (with the help of others) to make yourself feel better about your failures. Look at the boys at the Gaijin-are-trash site. They've convinced themselves that Japan would be a utopia if only there were no non-Japanese in the country.

[Naniwan Kid]

Naniwan Kid wrote:
My friend's grandfather was beaten senseless by a black man in his pre-teen years. Since then he has been a pretty strong racist.


Yeah, but what did he say to the guy that he felt he needed to beat his ass?

Now if I remember correctly I believe it was a racially charged term that led to his ass-whooping. Something along the lines of it was his first time seeing a black man, and wanted to see if they really sat on a porch all day. He probably had some of what he got coming.

I think the fact that some of us are racists and some of aren't and there are a rainbow in-between shows us clearly that racism ISN'T an innate trait. Gaisarada would like su to believe we squash our racism out of liberal guilt, or something, but it may be hard for him to beleive that I can look at a black person, and simply see a black person. I don't have a data bank of negative associations with blacks, so I don't start thinking negative thoughts.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Naniwan Kid wrote:
My friend's grandfather was beaten senseless by a black man in his pre-teen years. Since then he has been a pretty strong racist.


Yeah, but what did he say to the guy that he felt he needed to beat his ass?

Now if I remember correctly I believe it was a racially charged term that led to his ass-whooping. Something along the lines of it was his first time seeing a black man, and wanted to see if they really sat on a porch all day. He probably had some of what he got coming.

I think the fact that some of us are racists and some of aren't and there are a rainbow in-between shows us clearly that racism ISN'T an innate trait. Gaisarada would like su to believe we squash our racism out of liberal guilt, or something, but it may be hard for him to beleive that I can look at a black person, and simply see a black person. I don't have a data bank of negative associations with blacks, so I don't start thinking negative thoughts.

How's life out there in the corn belt?

[DJEB]

How's life out there in the corn belt?

Or in the sushi belt, the rice belt, the potato belt, the maple belt, the mosquito belt, the banana belt...

[Naniwan Kid]

Gaisaradatsuraku! wrote:

How's life out there in the corn belt?

I wear a leather belt. I am not sure a corn belt would hold my knickers up.

[kamome]

It is learned, but I believe it is built on biological systems designed to disciminate between your group and other groups. Humans have to be able to immediately identify new or unexpected things and size them up quickly (i.e. based on what is on the surface and based on experience with other examples), it's a survival instinct.

I don't know, this and Gai's reasoning sound like lame, pseudo-scientific justifications for racism. "Racism's in our blood, we can't help it." Where's the science to back that up? You're all talking out your asses.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

It is learned, but I believe it is built on biological systems designed to disciminate between your group and other groups. Humans have to be able to immediately identify new or unexpected things and size them up quickly (i.e. based on what is on the surface and based on experience with other examples), it's a survival instinct.

I don't know, this and Gai's reasoning sound like lame, pseudo-scientific justifications for racism. "Racism's in our blood, we can't help it." Where's the science to back that up? You're all talking out your asses.

Total bullshit Kamome. Where is your evidence that racism isn't inate. It is found in every culture and race around this globe and it has been with us since history has been recorded. Yet, you and your ilk want us to believe that racism is the product of an ignorant mind. No, that is not correct. Racism is normal and we should stop this line of attack if we want to reduce racism. The public school rhethoric is that this is a shameful, ignorant, loathesome response. That line is doing us no good and Amerika is probably more racist than it was in the 1950s.

You want me to believe this isn't a normal human response? You have the burden of proof not me. You and DJEB suck up the public school swill like dogs lap up a puddle of muddy water.

[blackcat]

Theres no proof either that racisim is in our DNA and this destructive behaviour/way of thinking is "normal".

Studies recently have shown higher levels of race hatred and thinking in Island nations and/or ones more Isolated from immigration.

We may all have some level of sterotypes and predjudices but it is how we ACT on those thoughts and what we are taught from of Family and society and what that society tolerates has far greater impact.

We can see that from many examples in history and a good one is Hitler...sparking hatred that yes..was dormant, but not acted on by the public until it was deemed worthwhile.

We may have feelings of violence and lust etc. but if we have been educated that we are all more the same than different, and that certain behaviour/speech is negative then we may be able to have greater control over our "normal" feelings.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Theres no proof either that racisim is in our DNA and this destructive behaviour/way of thinking is "normal".

Studies recently have shown higher levels of race hatred and thinking in Island nations and/or ones more Isolated from immigration.

We may all have some level of sterotypes and predjudices but it is how we ACT on those thoughts and what we are taught from of Family and society and what that society tolerates has far greater impact.

We can see that from many examples in history and a good one is Hitler...sparking hatred that yes..was dormant, but not acted on by the public until it was deemed worthwhile.

We may have feelings of violence and lust etc. but if we have been educated that we are all more the same than different, and that certain behaviour/speech is negative then we may be able to have greater control over our "normal" feelings.

Listen, feeling differently about people who look differently is part of the human animal. In fact, it is part of all animals so get your head out of the sand. Stop this crock and stop repeating your non-thinking mantra that only people who are "ignorant" have these feelings. We all do. It is natural. Only when we accept this about ourselves can progress be made. It is people like you that are holding up the show by claiming some moral highground (however, this is only in your mind).

[Resolute Optimist]

Only when we accept this about ourselves can progress be made. It is people like you that are holding up the show by claiming some moral highground (however, this is only in your mind).

I saw an interesting program about a woman who taught racism awareness classes to try and relieve the situation of the black students who were experiencing trouble.
Her method was to ask a student the first thing he thought about when she asked a black student to the front of the class. You could see the kids anguish as they tried to wriggle their way out with unoffensive "he's tall", "he's a boy", "he has a beard", whatever. She was having absolutely none of it. To the students who kept saying things like "you don't know me, we all have the same soul, the same heart" etc, she kept repeating "this is not the point, you see a black man before that". What she was trying to make people understand is that we instinctively see skin colour. Education then leads you to make negative/positive/neutral assumptions based on colour, and that not recognizing that basic fact was denying a lot of people of a road towards a solution. Why? Because we are all equal as human beings, but we are all different, and when you don't take into account these differences, you don't take into account the difficulties that each person encounters because of that difference. And I'm not just talking about individual, each-person-is unique differences, but cultural/community differences in extension.
Making assumptions on someone is wrong, discriminating against them is wrong, etc etc etc. You've been educated that way and so have I. But to hardcore racists you have to take a braver approach and tackle it by recognizing the primal process that leads them to recognize the difference (eg: "this is a black man") and try to get them to understand that it's the process that happens after that recognition that is unrealistic. Standing there saying "we're all the same" is just asking for the obvious reaction of any racist who can SEE that we're not.
But this subject is completely taboo, and if you suggest something slightly outside the usual lines, you attract suspicion which is pretty pathetic.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

There's another part of the bilge you get in public schools. It's only whitey who is racist. (Naniwa: smileys here).

[Resolute Optimist]

There's another part of the bilge you get in public schools. It's only whitey who is racist.

Wow, thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious. The program I watched was focused on the black kids in THAT particular school because they were the ones getting the hard time.
In France, it's the whole guilty of being white syndrome, so don't assume what I think.
Thanks.

[blackcat]

"Listen, feeling differently about people who look differently is part of the human animal"

I agree, acting in ways that are discriminating are the problem....like in the Hokkaido Onsen case which you felt was fine to ban all people of a certain nationality....is that your way of "progress being made"?????

you are only trying to justify your feelings of predjudice and the FREEDOM to express them, I dont deny you those feelings..but the freedom to express them is NOT progress and is the real non thinking going on here. only when you arise above that defense and keep repeating yourself of "its natural its OK" can you be taken seriously and not just a fool.


"It is people like you that are holding up the show by claiming some moral highground "

People that ask to challenge sterotypes, reduce national barriers, consider all the information in a story, and look for the things we have in common are not the ones holding up the show.

but people that support bans of people of diff. skin colour from entering a public place are.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

There's another part of the bilge you get in public schools. It's only whitey who is racist.

Wow, thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious. The program I watched was focused on the black kids in THAT particular school because they were the ones getting the hard time.
In France, it's the whole guilty of being white syndrome, so don't assume what I think.
Thanks.

Don't worry. I can't stoop that low.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

"Listen, feeling differently about people who look differently is part of the human animal"

I agree, acting in ways that are discriminating are the problem....like in the Hokkaido Onsen case which you felt was fine to ban all people of a certain nationality....is that your way of "progress being made"?????

you are only trying to justify your feelings of predjudice and the FREEDOM to express them, I dont deny you those feelings..but the freedom to express them is NOT progress and is the real non thinking going on here. only when you arise above that defense and keep repeating yourself of "its natural its OK" can you be taken seriously and not just a fool.


"It is people like you that are holding up the show by claiming some moral highground "

People that ask to challenge sterotypes, reduce national barriers, consider all the information in a story, and look for the things we have in common are not the ones holding up the show.

but people that support bans of people of diff. skin colour from entering a public place are.

You're starting to believe your own shit and shit about Japan too. If the bathhouses had their way they would have just banned the Russians but that was deemed too exclusionary so they broadened the ban to all foreigners so no one would feel singled out. The fact is that those sentos are private businesses and should be able to do whatever they want. If their customers in general support the ban it is because of the obnoxious behavior of the Russians who ought to have their asses kicked. Telling private businesses and people that they have no choice but to bathe with these pigs will only further create a divide. No thanks to your America in Japan thing. Wrong move, wrong place, wrong time.

[Resolute Optimist]

Don't worry. I can't stoop that low.

Oh the pain of being rejected by his Most Enlightened. Hooray!

[kamome]

Total bullshit Kamome. Where is your evidence that racism isn't inate... You have the burden of proof not me.

No, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove that racism is innate. After all, YOU are the one posturing pseudo-science for the theory that racism is a part of our genetic code.

Given that "genetic racism" is a different, unproven theory, the burden is most definitely on you to prove it. And other than a lot of insult hurling, I haven't heard one scientific fact from you to prove that racism is in our DNA. So until you can offer such evidence, and given that we all agree that racism is something to be reduced, I think the "ignorant mind" theory should and will remain the conventional wisdom for reducing racism until something better comes along.

[blackcat]

whos believing his own bullshit now!!

IE:"If the bathhouses had their way they would have just banned the Russians but that was deemed too exclusionary so they broadened the ban to all foreigners so no one would feel singled out."

That is a pathetic cop out and an excuse for racist behaviour....your idea of progress no doubt.

The bath houses BANNED all non japanese as the idea that all non japanese would act in the same way as a few saliors.

there are 1000`s of other places in japan that do the same thing.

"No thanks to your America in Japan thing"

whatever that means.

you make excuses for this behaviour "The fact is that those sentos are private businesses and should be able to do whatever they want"

Really? so beacuse they take money they can live above the law and the common good for the community? Any socially advanced society can see the error in this thinking and thats why we have(or used to) democracies.

[GomiGirl]

Racism = hate
hate = learned function

ergo Racism = learned function

Listen, feeling differently about people who look differently is part of the human animal. In fact, it is part of all animals so get your head out of the sand. Stop this crock and stop repeating your non-thinking mantra that only people who are "ignorant" have these feelings. We all do. It is natural. Only when we accept this about ourselves can progress be made. It is people like you that are holding up the show by claiming some moral highground (however, this is only in your mind).

Feeling "differently" is not hating!!

For a well balanced, secure and broad-minded person, being confronted with a new (but non-threatening) experience leads to a healthy curiosity. Then the person will judge the "new experience" on its merits.

For an insecure and narrow minded person, a new (but non-threatening) experience will induce a fear response. Small minded people hate what they can never understand and are afraid of new experiences. An arrogant person will attempt to cover of the veneer of insecurity with agressive behaviour all the while fearful of others being able to spot the crap coursing through every fibre.

Any person confronted with a threatening situation will have a flight/fight response.

Some of us have evolved and possess the cognitive capacity to process what we see rationally and without fear. If you cannot take responsibility for your own thought processes then you have not evolved past the animal stage. That is what keeps people from moving forward.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Racism = hate
hate = learned function

ergo Racism = learned function

NO. Racism does not (REPEAT NOT!) = Hate.

Here is the definition: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others

There is no hate in there. And, my dear, let me tell you I can remember seeing people who looked for different from me when I was still in my babycarriage. It blew me away. Just like it blows away everyone if they will just admit it. Nothing wrong with that. Accept it and move on.

All races do this. All people do this so you have got a lot of work to do to convince me that this anything but a normal human reaction. It is worldwide, it is nonstop. If it were just a function that were taught, pray tell, who did the first teaching? "Whoever" it was did a damn good job because it caught on more than Jesus Christ Himself. It is NOT taught.

For a well balanced, secure and broad-minded person, being confronted with a new (but non-threatening) experience leads to a healthy curiosity. Then the person will judge the "new experience" on its merits.

Let me guess....hmmm.... I bet you put your lofty self in the camp of the enlightened. How fortunate, how special you are...How did you ever become so wise and decent. You are truly a person to be admired....

For an insecure and narrow minded person, a new (but non-threatening) experience will induce a fear response. Small minded people hate what they can never understand and are afraid of new experiences. An arrogant person will attempt to cover of the veneer of insecurity with agressive behaviour all the while fearful of others being able to spot the crap coursing through every fibre.

Wow!!! Any "scientific evidence" to back this up??? No, none necessary. I understand. When you spew the same crap out to the rest of the nonthinkers no proof is necessary. I see....

Some of us have evolved and possess the cognitive capacity to process what we see rationally and without fear. If you cannot take responsibility for your own thought processes then you have not evolved past the animal stage. That is what keeps people from moving forward.

Wow. You are so special. No as a matter of fact you probably qualify as having a low IQ. We are animals Gomi. We are but a few generations removed from the folks who lived in the dirt and killed other animals to survive. You are quite (as in very) arrogant in even thinking that you are any more than an animal. Clearly, the ability to associate and draw conclusions is a sign of intelligence. It is what allowed us to progress to what we are today (mostly animals like you of the arrogant type). It is only with this ability did "man" achieve his meager achievements. You have just told me you don't/can't associate what your eyes see with an expected response. You would have me believe that this is because you have risen above. Frankly my dear you haven't risen at all and if anything the inability to associate probably is indicative of a low IQ. Here it is in math form:

Intelligence = association
Association = racism

Intelligence = racism

And, as a matter of fact, many absolutely brilliant people have been flaming racists. So, enough, with this "if you're racist you are ignorant clap trap." If you want to put an end to this type of behavior you need to try a new tact. Eliminate the shame please. Eliminate the arrogance please (such as above where you wax barfingly about the virtues of enlightened non-racists like yourself).

Pick it up a notch will you. Time to move the dialogue out of the ninth grade.