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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ F*cked News

Why Japan's Smartphones Haven't Gone Global

Odd news from Japan and all things Japanese around the world.
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17 posts • Page 1 of 1

Why Japan's Smartphones Haven't Gone Global

Postby Adhesive » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:15 pm

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Postby Coligny » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:45 pm

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Postby Kuang_Grade » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:20 pm

You can support alot of innovation when you have high population densities which cheaper to build networks for and higher Average Revenue Per User (ARP) numbers to pay for fancy network features (although APRU has been falling as of late, likely due to the recession and overall increase in price competition between carriers). Other markets, esp in the US, those factors are opposite, expensive networks due to large coverage areas and low ARPU numbers that won't pay for a lot of network features. I find it intersting that they mention Sony-Ericsson as being 'succssful' overseas, while they are pretty much non-existant in the US (they do better in the EU however) with hardly any phones being offered through major US carriers (although ATT just added the C905 and W518, although in the C905 case, it costs $80 (even after rebates) more than the latest Iphone). Many of the Sony Ericsson phones are quite fancy, but they simply cost too much for US buyers/cell phone carriers to consider. There are far too many other phones that are similar or better at much lower prices than what Sony Ericsson has to offer.
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Postby canman » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:40 pm

Maybe I'm just getting old, but my god these current phones have a ton of functions that I just never use and have no use for. I would really like to know how many people really use all of the functions they have on their phones. Other than say email, the camera, calculator, calendar, or schedule.
I have a question maybe GG can answer. How difficult or expensive is it for the phone companies to make most of their phones bilingual? I'm pretty sure most phones have the capability to switch languages. Which is great for us foreigners, but I wonder do the cell phone makers in America have the capability to switch between French and Spanish?
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Postby gkanai » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:08 pm

My thoughts are on my blog:
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Postby BigInJapan » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:17 pm

canman wrote:I have a question maybe GG can answer. How difficult or expensive is it for the phone companies to make most of their phones bilingual?

I have done enough localization (software, hardware, and UI's) to know that most of the text on Japanese phones has already been translated into English so the cost should be minimal.
I think the reason it is still not done on all (or even many) phones here is because the manufacturers feel they cannot justify the extra cost (however minimal) of implementing an extra set of menus for the potential addition of a few English speaking customers that would purchase a bilingual phone.
And, many phones that are bilingual are not even translated or proofed by native English speakers. When I turn off "manner" mode on my ancient Hitachi phone, I get a kick out of the message, "OK Usual released".
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Postby FG Lurker » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:31 pm

canman wrote:I would really like to know how many people really use all of the functions they have on their phones. Other than say email, the camera, calculator, calendar, or schedule.


I have an iPhone. Apart from the uses you mentioned above (all of which I use) I also regularly use the following apps (in no particular order):

Internet Browsing
iPod MP3 Music Player
Streaming Internet Radio
Flashlight
Pedometer
Alarm
Tidal Information
Moon Phase
Night Sky Guide (so I can tell what I'm looking at ;))
Stock & Currency Information
RSS Reader
Level (I use it for photography to make sure the camera is level)
Tethering (use phone as modem)
VNC/RDP Apps (to control my servers from the phone)
SSH App (to access my firewalls)
GPS + Compass + Google Maps

I have a few games on the phone as well but rarely play them. Good mindless entertainment if I'm waiting for someone but don't feel like reading something on RSS.

I'm not getting any younger but I find the iPhone to be a very powerful and very useful tool. Certainly I could live without it but I wouldn't let it go by choice.
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Postby IkemenTommy » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:26 pm

On the contrary, foreign phones (Nokia, SonyEriccson, Motorola, Apple, Samsung, etc) absolutely blow chunks in Japan. Why? Because they do not meet the network compatibility (ie. piss poor i-mode compatibility with the Android phone, lack of emoji expressions in iPhone), lack of Japan-specific features (1-seg TV viewing, IC reader), and meeting the consumers' demands (compact size, light weight, folding clamshell design).

I can think of Kyocera as another example besides SonyEriccson that, probably safe to say, attempted to go overseas but that failed miserably in doing so.

But then if you look at the overall market size of Japan, the major manufacturers would be laughing and not within their efforts to tap into it.
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Postby GomiGirl » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:45 pm

IkemenTommy wrote:On the contrary, foreign phones (Nokia, SonyEriccson, Motorola, Apple, Samsung, etc) absolutely blow chunks in Japan. Why? Because they do not meet the network compatibility (ie. piss poor i-mode compatibility with the Android phone, lack of emoji expressions in iPhone), lack of Japan-specific features (1-seg TV viewing, IC reader), and meeting the consumers' demands (compact size, light weight, folding clamshell design).

I can think of Kyocera as another example besides SonyEriccson that, probably safe to say, attempted to go overseas but that failed miserably in doing so.


The biggest issue with phones not doing well here is that they are squeezed out by the carriers who are protecting the market share status quo of the large JAPANESE handset manufactures.

The carrier (eg DoCoMo) tells the handset manufacturer what specs, features and functions they need to put in for the each series. (Ever wondered why each phone in each series are pretty much identical apart from the brand)

In exchange for total compliance, the carriers protect the market share of each of the local manufacturers from the n-i-h (not invented here) phones. Nokia failed as they were made to turn off pretty much all of the good features of the Symbian OS and were left with a bare bones phone ensuring that nobody wanted to buy it.
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Postby GomiGirl » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:55 pm

canman wrote:I have a question maybe GG can answer.


You rang???

canman wrote:How difficult or expensive is it for the phone companies to make most of their phones bilingual? I'm pretty sure most phones have the capability to switch languages. Which is great for us foreigners, but I wonder do the cell phone makers in America have the capability to switch between French and Spanish?


Dead easy... most of them already have the phones for the major languages in their market. It is usually that there is a single hardware form and different OS builds depending on where the phone will be shipped.

The localisation of the syntax is not a big deal - the text strings are pulled out and translated into multiple languages on the OS level. The input methods are a bit trickier and require more CPU and memory.

If you buy a phone in Europe, you will have a choice about which language you use and you can also switch between them - they will have multiple languages installed and it is just a setting to choose which one you want. They limit them to regions due to the memory issues of the small devices.

The only reason they don't have languages other than Japanese and English in the OS is due to the incompatibility of the double byte japanese fonts with special characters of european or other asian languages. (iPhone not withstanding of course as the MAC OS is able to handle multiple which is something that not many of the other phones do.)

Plus you will have issues with handling multiple asian scripts on phones and so there is usually a build for Chinese markets (TC, SC and English), Japan (Japan-go and English), Thailand (Thai and English) etc.
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Postby GomiGirl » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:01 pm

But to answer the original post, my personal opinion as to why Japanese phones haven't really been successful overseas is that there is not enough infrastructure to support the advanced technologies..

I mean SUICA - fabulous for Japan as it is custom built for the JAPANESE train system. Will not work in other countries as the train ticketing systems are different.

Same for 1-seg.

The whole iMode thing is a closed system and while it works here, there are plenty of sites that are specifically designed for Japanese phones, but the general browsing (which most people use outside of Japan) is pretty poor.

iMode was forced upon the japanese market as you really couldn't buy anything else. But if you were given a choice, you probably would buy something that is a bit more open. PLus once everybody had imode phones, it was worth the while of supporting infrastructure developers to make suitable systems to work with these standardised features.

So while Japanese phones are great for use in Japan, they really don't work outside as there is not the supporting infrastructure that makes them so convenient - chicken and egg type stuff.
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Postby Number11 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:43 am

The manufacturers haven't been able to develop workable arrangements with providers, either. They can't go it alone. They need to have a tie-up with providers. In the first example on the article, Panasonic is mentioned. They invested heavily over the years in trying to work with AT&T, but they could never make it work for a variety of reasons. Patent royalties are a significant hurdle, but it was not mentioned. Qualcomm extracts a princely sum for patents used in other networks from the handset manufacturers. The US government also played a hand in forcing network standards to benefit US domestic manufacturers and protect Qualcomm patents, essentially denying most Japanese handset makers from the market.
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Postby Adhesive » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:05 am

[quote="FG Lurker"]I have an iPhone. Apart from the uses you mentioned above (all of which I use) I also regularly use the following apps (in no particular order):

Internet Browsing
iPod MP3 Music Player
Streaming Internet Radio
Flashlight
Pedometer
Alarm
Tidal Information
Moon Phase
Night Sky Guide (so I can tell what I'm looking at ]

I use a lot of those same programs/features. Two additional programs that I use on my winmobile phone that I can't imagine living without are translation/learning software, and guitar tuning software.

This falls into the general internet category, but I also can't imagine not having instant access to yelp anytime I'm in front of a new bar or restaurant.
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Postby klimmer » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:54 am

If only they could make a longer lasting battery for the iPhone....
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Postby FG Lurker » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:27 pm

klimmer wrote:If only they could make a longer lasting battery for the iPhone....


I have an external Sanyo Eneloop battery I use if I am going to be away from my car or office for an extended period of time. I can get 4 full charges out of it, easily enough to last through 2 <i>days</i> of fairly heavy use.
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Postby Bucky » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:33 am

Mobile phone charges in Tokyo were the second highest in seven major cities in the world in fiscal 2008, up from fourth place last year due to the yen's appreciation, the communications ministry said Tuesday.

Tokyoites paid an average 27.7 yen for a minute of cellphone conversation, short of 32.0 yen paid by Parisians, according to the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications. The lowest charge was 10.0 yen in New York.

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Postby IkemenTommy » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:39 am

Newsflash!!! Japan is one of the most expensive places to live on earth. It comes with the steep price -- Economics 101.
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