Japan: how do you integrate yourself?

[Mulboyne]

Keep pace in Japan recently posted these two videos:

[YT]LduKDBuamAE[/YT]

[YT]EYvpHPT0ZM0[/YT]

Halfway through the second one, there's a lot of intrusive traffic noise. He did re-record a summary but, if you can stick with it, he elaborates more in this one.

[Adhesive]

On the flip side, there are some people who I speak to regularly who are excellent at using Japanese that I can easily understand as they are also conscious of vocab and idiom that are difficult for non-native Japanese speakers. There is also one guy in my office that I have been working with for a decade that still find very difficult to understand...

When I'm with my father-in-law, we talk it up, about cars, work, women, etc., and I start feeling really really good about my Japanese ability, then my mom-in-law says something and I'm like WTF did she just say? My FiL is just really good at choosing his words carefully and speaking clearly. My MiL speaks as if I were some boy that grew up with her in her remote Japanese fishing village. Unlike the FiL, she's never had any instruction in a foreign language, so she just doesn't seem to comprehend that certain words and phrases will be lost on me.

[Ganma]

When I'm with my father-in-law, we talk it up, about cars, work, women, etc., and I start feeling really really good about my Japanese ability, then my mom-in-law says something and I'm like WTF did she just say? My FiL is just really good at choosing his words carefully and speaking clearly. My MiL speaks as if I were some boy that grew up with her in her remote Japanese fishing village. Unlike the FiL, she's never had any instruction in a foreign language, so she just doesn't seem to comprehend that certain words and phrases will be lost on me.

I pretty much understand my father-in-law's Japanese these days ... but I still don't know what he is talking about.

[CrankyBastard]

To any FGs considering integrating, the definition of integrate is, "To meld with and become part of the dominant culture."
I stopped at melding with.



I don't know about the fat guy in kimono, he looks and sounds kinda creepy, but I don't knock Daniel Kahl for being just another FG making a few bucks here.

[hurryharry]

[quote="Mulboyne"]Keep pace in Japan recently posted these two videos:

...good luck, Pollyanna...

[IparryU]

When I'm with my father-in-law, we talk it up, about cars, work, women, etc., and I start feeling really really good about my Japanese ability, then my mom-in-law says something and I'm like WTF did she just say? My FiL is just really good at choosing his words carefully and speaking clearly. My MiL speaks as if I were some boy that grew up with her in her remote Japanese fishing village. Unlike the FiL, she's never had any instruction in a foreign language, so she just doesn't seem to comprehend that certain words and phrases will be lost on me.

it is just the exact oposite with my MiL and FiL, despite talking about chicks and cars with MiL...

MiL always tones it down a notch for important stuff and trys to explain things to me when I dont understand. She is from Yamanashi too... like the bumfuck no where area.

Wife cant catch on to that though... stubborn lady she is...

To any FGs considering integrating, the definition of integrate is, "To meld with and become part of the dominant culture."
I stopped at melding with.


I don't know about the fat guy in kimono, he looks and sounds kinda creepy, but I don't knock Daniel Kahl for being just another FG making a few bucks here.

My melding was getting married and having kids... I do the washoi thingy sometimes and I watch Annpanman with my boys, but thats it.

Wont catch me in a kimono unless I am really boozed up...

[Cyka UchuuJin]

...there is always another way...the 90-10 rule: 10% reality, 90% our interpretation of it...

oh come here, you cute little naive bastard and let me give you a cuddle and a biscuit.

you dreamers of the impossible are just so damn adorable.

[Greji]

oh come here, you cute little naive bastard and let me give you a cuddle and a biscuit.

Hey, bring your cuddle an biscuit over here lady and I'll show ya my new etchings of famous recipes for Asakusa Borscht. Second door, 4th floor. Wear your black argyles.....

[Coligny]

Hey, bring your cuddle an biscuit over here lady and I'll show ya my new etchings of famous recipes for Asakusa Borscht. Second door, 4th floor. Wear your black argyles.....

...put on black argyles and head viciously toward said destinashiun while practicing my russian accent with a recording of james bond voice in "hunt for red octobur"... Will greji notice the diifrence ? You'l know it while watching our next episode of "i'm not queer, i'm french"...

[Ikemen-of-d00m]

No internet for almost a week. It was horrible, and I am still in the recovering phase.

Back to topic:
I just want to make it clear(again) that I do not want to become Japanese. I do not wish to be treated like I am Japanese. I regret the title of this thread. I should have been something like "how to understand the Japanese way of thinking".

[wuchan]

I regret the title of this thread. I should have been something like "how to understand the Japanese way of thinking".

is it even possible?

[Mulboyne]

I regret the title of this thread. I should have been something like "how to understand the Japanese way of thinking".

Well that's mainly about understanding why people do what they do, and how your own actions will be interpreted. I think both are possible. The key for me is the second point. You can be passive and try to accommodate yourself to how you think people want you to act or else be more proactive in setting people's expectations of you. We touched on this in an earlier thread when a board member asked whether a proper private life is possible in Japan. I recall saying this:

You have to make Japan adapt to what you mean by private and public life. Many foreigners arrive here and, understandably, want to "fit in" and generally make sacrifices and compromises in their life to reach that goal. That's OK if it is the life you want to live but I meet a lot of foreigners who suddenly realize they are playing a role rather than living their life. Japan is not a hostile place for you to live your life.

I worked for a Japanese company 20 years ago and I still remember vividly an American employee who arrived at 9:00am and left at 5:00pm every day. Everyone frowned on this and I thought I was morally superior to him by making myself available to go out with my bosses at all hours.

When I spoke to the guy, he said "I used to do what you did but I began to feel like the class clown. I also realized early on that I wasn't a candidate for promotion so I decided to set some rules for what I would and wouldn't do. It was very difficult for the first few months because I wasn't "fitting in" but, after a while, no-one was bothered." He reckoned the reason for that is that he had set his own routine and everyone came to understand what they could expect from him and what they couldn't.

Unpredictability can be one of the most heinous crimes against society in Japan. If you want private time away from work or study, then you have to seize it and make the people around you respect it.

The guy I mentioned had found a balance which people had come to accept despite the occasional frowns. It's not about being selfish. In any place you work, in your home country or abroad, you'll have to conform to some social norms. It's about ensuring that people draw the right conclusions about your intentions.

You mostly do that in Japan by acting consistently. That's better than trying to explain what you are up to all the time. People don't always listen to what you say, they also watch how you are saying it and there's a risk of coming across as self-centred if you are constantly justifying yourself.

[nottu]

[Yokohammer]

Mulboyne's last post reminds me of a situation we had at the Japanese company I worked for up until about 25 years ago. Even though there was no paid overtime some officious jackass decided that the company needed a time clock, although we'd gotten along perfectly fine without one for years.It was only a small company of about 20 employees, so it wasn't like it was difficult to keep track of people. All of the Japanese employees obediently punched the clock in and out every day, while none of the FGs (there were about five of us at the time) would have anything to do with it. We'd leave when the work was done, whether it was five o'clock in the evening or nine o'clock at night. The company kept insisting that we punch the clock, and we kept asking why, since we were receiving a flat salary with no overtime anyway. The answer was always "because that's the way we do it," which of course isn't an answer at all, so our answer was always "well, this is the way we do it." None of the FGs ever punched the clock, but the work always got done, and as far as I could tell there was never any friction between the FGs and Japanese employees because of it. In fact, we all got along pretty well, but there's always some control freak who wants to assert themselves or perhaps justify their own salary by trying to "keep everyone in line."

[GomiGirl]

maybe the best route to a comfortable integration is a good dose of segregation

I think boundaries are the most important part of maintaining your mental health. Trying to and thinking you have succeeded in becoming integrated and then finding out you are not can be a very rude shock on the system. Sends people loopy. OR can lead to bitterness. Nobody who is not Japanese can ever be truly integrated so trying to is just an exercise in futility.

For example, in our house we don't feel like we are living in "JAPAN" rather that we are living in our own space that just happens to be located in Japan. This comes down to the way we decorate, the food we cook, the TV shows we watch. It makes dealing with some of the crappiness outside easier to segment and allows us to not let the challenges overwhelm the positives of living here.

[IparryU]

I think boundaries are the most important part of maintaining your mental health. Trying to and thinking you have succeeded in becoming integrated and then finding out you are not can be a very rude shock on the system. Sends people loopy. OR can lead to bitterness. Nobody who is not Japanese can ever be truly integrated so trying to is just an exercise in futility.

For example, in our house we don't feel like we are living in "JAPAN" rather that we are living in our own space that just happens to be located in Japan. This comes down to the way we decorate, the food we cook, the TV shows we watch. It makes dealing with some of the crappiness outside easier to segment and allows us to not let the challenges overwhelm the positives of living here.

word.

when I leave my place, i then realize that I am "back out there"...

i knew a guy or two who thought they were "integrated" but they were just lousy bums that never really did anything here for the 20+ years they been here.

[CrankyBastard]

word.

when I leave my place, i then realize that I am "back out there"...

i knew a guy or two who thought they were "integrated" but they were just lousy [SIZE="2"]bums that never really did anything[/SIZE] here for the 20+ years they been here.

I guess they really were integrated then.

[wuchan]

I think boundaries are the most important part of maintaining your mental health. Trying to and thinking you have succeeded in becoming integrated and then finding out you are not can be a very rude shock on the system. Sends people loopy. OR can lead to bitterness. Nobody who is not Japanese can ever be truly integrated so trying to is just an exercise in futility.

For example, in our house we don't feel like we are living in "JAPAN" rather that we are living in our own space that just happens to be located in Japan. This comes down to the way we decorate, the food we cook, the TV shows we watch. It makes dealing with some of the crappiness outside easier to segment and allows us to not let the challenges overwhelm the positives of living here.

this.

[Thanatos' embalmed botfly]

[SIZE="4"][/SIZE]

http://www.petermacintosh.webs.com

[hurryharry]

i knew a guy or two who thought they were "integrated" but they were just lousy bums that never really did anything here for the 20+ years they been here.[/QUOTE]


I used to work with a totally Japanised fucker like that and he plans to go home when he retires, so he has about 15 years to go...single, never married, studies English grammar as a hobby...total wanker...I can already hear the shit being stomped out of him when he goes back to the hood he came from bowing to everybody and acting like a black Jap...

[nottu]

[FG Lurker]

http://www.petermacintosh.webs.com

[Mulboyne]

http://www.petermacintosh.webs.com

Until I saw FG Lurker's response above, I though that might just be a genuine link to his own page so didn't bother clicking on it. Now I'm very glad I did.

[Typhoon]

Until I saw FG Lurker's response above, I though that might just be a genuine link to his own page so didn't bother clicking on it. Now I'm very glad I did.

The geisha business must be experiencing some tough times for them to tolerate PM.



Using a onsen geisha's stiff wig to crack open a beer will do in a pinch.

_____

Japan: How do you integrate yourself?

Me: You don't. Just learn enough about local custom so the natives don't consider you a complete wanker. However, no matter what you do they still will so don't worry too much about it. Life is too short.

[omae mona]

Until I saw FG Lurker's response above, I though that might just be a genuine link to his own page so didn't bother clicking on it. Now I'm very glad I did.

My thanks too, to Thanatos' embalmed botfly for the page and to FGL for making sure we didn't miss it. That was significantly more enjoyable than the guy's original page.

[Thanatos' embalmed botfly]

Website shut down.






Mr Peter, Very Cross, I imagine.

[Thanatos' embalmed botfly]

Integrate yourself to Japan?

Go on Gene-o's fucken Japan Tour of course!

https://spraguedawley.com/111-2/