who married a j-girl?

[AssKissinger]

Wow Skanky! It's amazing you know more about my wife ( I mean widow) than I do.

[Watcher]

Honest analysis always led me to the conclusion that I was either being subborn or being an asshole.

Shhhhhh!!!! Don't let the cat out of the bag. That applies to nearly all of us but I still want to win the fight

[Mels]

Wasnt going to participate, but fuck it, here goes.

Any woman can be labled....J Girls are no different. Danm, my guy friends here tell me about american women....they are in debt, they are looking for someone to take care of them, they are lazy, they get FAT, they use the men..

Well, I am right in the fucking middle, with some people saying shit about J-Girls and me hearing from my buddies about american women.

It is not the culture so much the CHARACTER of the person you are involved with...if they are a certain way and you dont like it, it isnt because they are a J girl, american girl, malay girl, english girl...it is who the person is on the inside. And sure, I have some character defects as well as some outstanding character attributes (I think umm, am I lying to myself here??)....

My mom is Japanese and my dad asked her hand in marriage 5 times. Well, they got married and would have been married for 44 years if dad did not pass away. Mom is a tough woman.....go getter, hard worker, intelligent, college educated...you name it. Sure, she has a hot temper sometimes, but she expects the best in me and the family.

Their relationship was no different then anyone else. They had the same ups and downs. Sure, the different cultures may clash some times, but they learned together. tried to take the best from both cultures.

Growing up being happa haoli, ainoko, half, amerasian, eurasian, whatever you want to call me, I learned from both cultures and take the best from both.

SO FOR THE guy thinking about getting married, do what you feel in your heart. As the other person posted......you are not settling, you are ready to move forward with your life. Getting married sounds like a part of your future.

Everyone has doubts, but this lady sounds like she truly loves you...she stood by you during the toughest times you had. That really counts.

Fuck, my AMERICAN ex-fiance wasnt able to stand by me when I needed him the most....when dad got sick and I needed to return to the US...I left Malaysia and never returned because he gave me ultimatums. Walking away from that was the best thing I did. And to think, I went over and beyond to help him get a job in Japan....with my company. (hmmmm do I hear some resentment here ??? NAW..he is happily married and I look forward to seeing his first kid next year )

So you see, doesnt matter, WOMAN OR MAN. Foreigner or non foreigner. If it is meant to be, it will happen. If not, then nothing lost.

GOOD luck to you in your decision making process. I dont know you, but what you are going through is normal...asking the question is normal.....

[NeoNecroNomiCron]

Hi Mels this line is funny "they get FAT, they use the men." Because to me american girls are already fat just they get fatter after.

Dont get me wrong there are many types of japanese girls and they come in all the same combinations as any other women.

But there is a limiting factor. There are certain personality traits taht make up a gaijin chaser. We are not talking really about any Japanese Girl, we are usualy talking about the girls who is activly chacing gaijin (Ginjinhunter, roppongi gal, palygirl) or the girl that has given up getting a normal man and has settled for a gaijin. Where sertain personality traits become more appartent. Gaijins choice is also limited by English ability. There are some Japanese girls that I would marry on the spot, because they have great personality's but they are more "Yamato Nadesuku" and find it difficult even being near foreigners.

Personally I hate all that enviroment, if I meet girl I would like some common interest, i.e. not english and meet a girl like I would in Europe. But its hard in Japan. Unless you are a cassanova and can win over the locals that are not out for gaijin meat whistles.

[DJEB]

It is not the culture so much the CHARACTER of the person you are involved with...if they are a certain way and you dont like it, it isnt because they are a J girl, american girl, malay girl, english girl...it is who the person is on the inside.

Apparently, this needs to be said again and again.

If you are having consistent problems with Japanese women, then you are either hanging out with the wrong crowd or have the same problem I did (ie. being stubborn or being an asshole - or being a stubborn asshole for that matter apologies to Watcher).

[Samurai_Jerk]

I agree that you shouldn't avoid something out of fear of failure or wait for the perfect girl because she'll never come. But you guys seem to be ignoring what he said. They had almost no sex the last year of their relationship. That's an issue that doesn't tend to get resolved after marriage. It usually get worse from what I hear.

[Mels]

Hi Neo:
Wakarimashita and Arigatou for the clarification.

Well, I have to admit, you are right about many things.

For one, many american people in general are lard asses, (sorry but true) or getting there. I was becoming one of them because of the food here...but cut that crap out. Plus, my mom would freak out on my butt and get on me to take better care of myself and have pride in the way I looked. Thank god for mom's!!

AND I DO HAVE TO ADMIT, I remembered this because of your post. When my friend Mike and I were having dinner in Tokyo one night, he confessed something about Japanese women to me. He did say that he felt they were just dating him because he was a FG. He is half like me, but does not look any Japanese like me. He was very frustrated because he felt used and did not trust any of the women he met there. But then again, we all hung out in Ropponji, Ginza, Shibuya and Harajuku.....

I believe what you say about those kind of women in Japan. I could spot them a mile away....

I do understand what you mean about it being hard to meet someone in Japan....if you are really interested, they may be shy or dont want to get involved with a FG. That is no fun...

But now, my other friend Mike (Pilot Mike) is corresponding with a woman in China. He says he is fed up with skanky american blood sucking bitches (his words!!) I am kind of worried about that....any thoughts on email correspondence with someone from China or any where else? The only way for her to visit the US is on a fiance visa and that is something I am a bit concerned about for him. Plus, he also corresponed with some chick in Russia...but after she asked him for money, he cut that short.

I think it is fire in the making. Any thoughts or stories about this? Good and bad?

Well, I will end by saying I feel for you guys who are not on the prowl in Japan, but wanting to meet a nice person to spend the rest of your life with.

Much luck to you.

[DJEB]

Any thoughts or stories about this? Good and bad?

Corresponding? What is the nature of this corresponding? How did Mike get into it?

If it is some sort of 'find a wife' type of deal, I wouldn't be up for that. Using the example of Russia, it's an economy that was slaughtered by the IMF and will need many years to recover. That a Russian girl would be looking for money is understandable. I think I could also be forgiven for thinking that a Chinese girl might use such correspondence to find a way to emmigrate.

[Mels]

Yeah.....for some reason, Mike had joined some email group on the web... but he said he cancelled his subscription. I think it was 'America's Singles'? It is american based, not looking for foreign girls....but more like date.com or match.com...

He said he started to get these emails from different countries...not sure if they got access to email addresses from the site or not. Or maybe Mike isnt giving me the whole story because he is embarrassed?

He responded to 2 women. Both from China. As a pilot, he can fly out to Asia for free or $100. (that is a sweet deal) Any way, the second one he met is the one he likes. They have been corresponding for about a year and 1/2. I suppose I am weary about this, but then again, he makes his own choices.

Just wondering if anyone had any experience with this kind of thing..I suppose my fear is this Chinese girl wants to migrate to the US. I have heard more devastating stories then Positive ones.

Side note: about the Russian girl, I totally agree with you. It is survival for them right now. My friends who were teachers in St Petersburg experienced first hand how hard it is........it would take hours to buy a loaf of bread......and the price was skyhigh....

[Mels]

I should add....this Chinese girl may be totally cool and authentic about her feelings for Mike.......maybe it is just my older sister mentality working over time?

[Samurai_Jerk]

Chinese girl? Ohhhh Lord.

[Skankster]

-
-
Neo,

I very much agree with your warning:

Never date a Japanese girl who has dated a gaijin before.

BUT for different reasons.
I think the largest obstacle in J-girl/G-guy love is the same fact that makes them want us. No matter how you look at it if it wasnt for the easy access to girls and the stroke being in Japan does for our ego there would not be NEAR as many Gaijin here.
But it is that same pedastal that these J-girls put us on that makes them so intimidated by being w/ a gaijin. Especially in Japan with their rivals - other J-girls - nearby and ready to pounce.
This situation drives them into a lovers paranoia. Mark my word on this one. I am still trying to figure out a method to effectively risk manage this factor...
Anyway, this "lovers paranoia" is what causes the break-up and friction.
So if she has dated another gaijin before she already has the roots of this paranoia and it will surface much earlier.
And if you consider that Japanese are generally a calmer peaple than western girls than you will understand that this paranoia is more severe than it seems to be on the surface.

A big warning. Never date a Japanese girl who has dated a gaijin before. Its not a joke either. Never ever do it. The got dumped for a reason, they are quite selfish and are looking for fill a void.

To Japanese men, Japanese women are seen as quite selfish. I agree, for a race that is supposed to be unemotional Jgirls sure do cry a lot. Really a lot over the smallest of things.

Its interesting that you bring the selfishness of J-girls and the J-girl crying syndrome together. Essentially this is a symptom of the paranoia.
What they often do is attach their future to a Gaijin guy. Once they have internalized what they think is love to their dreamy adonis Gaijin BF that is when the paranoia starts to build. Even the strong ones develop this. I have seen some really strong girls succumb over a long period.

Because if it was a J-guy they would be confident that they have just as much chance as him to find another lover as their partner.

[mrmachine]

didn't the guy say the past years lack of sex was his own doing, not hers?

and about the gaijin chasers, how about japanese girls that are travelling or living abroad, where they would find it difficult to meet a japanese man if they tried? at least more difficult than in japan. do you consider them gaijin-chasers, too?

[FG Lurker]

-This situation drives them into a lovers paranoia. Mark my word on this one. I am still trying to figure out a method to effectively risk manage this factor...

I dealt with this very early in the relationship with my wife (girlfriend then of course).

At the time I was working as an English teacher and had a lot of plutonic friendships with female ex-students, and some current students. Going out for dinner with them didn't sit too well with the missus! I told her that these are my friends, and if she can't handle it then the relationship between us will never work. We had a talk about trust and I told her that if she went out for dinner with plutonic male friends that would be fine too.

It took a bit of time for her to come to terms with that, but she did, and we've been together about 10 years now. We've never had a problem with this since.

I think it is just an issue of finding a women with enough self confidence, and then building enough trust in the relationship. Jealousy from either side starts a trip down a very slipperly slope.

Ian

[tatsujin]

Great post guys, its fascinating to read all your various experiences!

My two cents - I'd say you should just go with whatever feels right. In the end your the one who knows yourself better than anyone else. If you screw up and its a total disaster then its another lesson learned and you move onto the next one. I find you will never be 100% sure of any decision you make, you just gotta go with it sometimes. Failing that I find the maxim from the Hagakure always helps -

"One should make his decision within the space of seven breaths"

Good shit!

Regarding the chinese girl - one of my best mates (who is Italian) met his wife over the internet and they became probably the nicest and most genuine couple I have ever met. I suppose fate always finds a way.

Asskissinger - I think this is the first post I have ever seen you being serious, you showed a sensitive caring side that I didn't think existed, I'm touched... :P

[Mulboyne]

Failing that I find the maxim from the Hagakure always helps - "One should make his decision within the space of seven breaths"

If you want to spend some time listening to a programme about indecision, try these two broadcasts from BBC Radio. There are guys who would fully agree with the statement above.
"The Art of Indecision" - Part One (30 minutes)
"The Art of Indecision" - Part Two (30 minutes)
If the links don't work, go to BBC Radio 4 and click through.
The worst damn thing is that I spent a few minutes wondering whether to post these links on this thread before I realized the irony.

As a side note, I think I'd like to re-emphasize that I do have friends in great Japanese/Western relationships, some with kids and some who won't have kids and are happy with that. Most positive comments (not just this site) come from people who are basically saying "my relationship is OK" which is a good thing to hear but most of the guys with negative views have either had bad experiences themselves or seen friends suffer so there is a slight objective/subjective imbalance.
One I think AK touched on is that friends should be supportive of a relationship. I can think of one which failed because an FG was effectively told by his mates (never directly, of course) that "he should be doing a lot better". I thought the guy's mates let him down but, ultimately, it was up to him. We all like to think we are our own man (woman) but it suprises me how much people need (or underestimate their need for) the approval of friends and family.
A Japanese wife for some gaijin is great "trophy" in Tokyo when she is sorting out visa, driving licence, oseibo, nengajo, utilities, friends etc for you but that warm, fuzzy feeling can quickly disappear if you haven't worked out that you need to offer the same support if you step outside Japan. I've seen guys suddenly see their wife as a liability almost as soon as they pass through immigration at Narita. If I warn people about getting together, it's not because I think the relationship won't work; it's more to make sure that both realize what might be ahead.
In the best cases, couples deal with problems that they never saw before without any need for a "briefing". In general, that happens best with young couples who have never seen anything before and so every challenge is a new challenge rather than a "I thought this might happen" moment.
Then again, what do I know? I'm not married and AK's comment about time passing by ever faster rings very true.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I dealt with this very early in the relationship with my wife (girlfriend then of course).

At the time I was working as an English teacher and had a lot of plutonic friendships with female ex-students, and some current students. Going out for dinner with them didn't sit too well with the missus! I told her that these are my friends, and if she can't handle it then the relationship between us will never work. We had a talk about trust and I told her that if she went out for dinner with plutonic male friends that would be fine too.

It took a bit of time for her to come to terms with that, but she did, and we've been together about 10 years now. We've never had a problem with this since.

I think it is just an issue of finding a women with enough self confidence, and then building enough trust in the relationship. Jealousy from either side starts a trip down a very slipperly slope.

Ian

It's perfectly reasonable for a woman not to want you to have dinner alone with another woman. Spending time alone witht the opposite sex is the real slippery slope. Men an women cannot truly be friends (unless the guy is gay). It's all spelled out in the Ladder Theory: http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

[Skankster]

I've seen guys suddenly see their wife as a liability almost as soon as they pass through immigration at Narita.

??? going out? or coming in ???
I wasnt quite clear on that.


I wanted to qualify what I said in my earlier post on J-girls Lovers Paronoia Self-Destroyer Syndrome. I have seen successful relationships stateside but not in Japan.

[Mels]

Wow some great posts.
Regarding my friend Mike. I have always been supportive, but it is true, I need to be careful with asking him certain things that may lead to being negative.
I would ask him: will you bring her over here? She does need a fiance visa, are you prepared for that. Heck, it isnt for me to say. I suppose after his divorce (his wife was having affairs with several men the two years they were married) made him a little crazy and I dont blame him. She was mexican and he now has this whole negative thing against that race. sad

Then my ex finance married a chinese-malay and is very happy....I think Mike looks at that relationship and wants that for him self. That is normal. But the difference is, my ex lives in Malaysia, he met his wife through work. etc.

I am not saying the internet cannot bring people together.That certainly can work.
But I have been in long distance relationships. (my ex and another person) When ever we get together, it was a honeymoon thing...for me, I realized these two or three weeks a year really doesn't give me the real day to day living experience. Thus, I am no longer interested in these types of relationships.

I am happy to hear some success stories here. I would say that any challenges you face because you are from different countries is an adventure. Something new...may be a struggle, but thinking of it as the two of you facing the world together.

[GridReaper]

what was she like before, and after?

She was quite normal (western-wise), then after a year of marriage and her 32nd B-day she turned really sensitive and found my sense of humor less than amusing. She really turned nationalistic and resentful of any thought of the USA, especially visiting or even living there.

have you settled or do you plan to settle in japan, or your native country?

I was waiting here in Hawaii (I have a job here) because she was deciding on where to go for her PhD and Univ of Hawaii was on her list. Soon after her birthday (5 months after her acceptance to UH) she forgot that fact and decided that she will stay in Japan for her degree and wondered why I haven't moved to Japan with her yet.

So, I was planning to move over in January, but she said she was too busy with work to "babysit" me until May. Now May might be too early because she may have to disappear for a few months in the summer for work, so the new ETA is November. Oh, I have to save ~$10k for Japanese tuition and to get a STUDENT visa. Yeah, she was really subtle on tha visa thing....

did you meet her in japan during your travels, or elsewhere during her travels?

We met in college here in Hawaii.

[DJEB]

I was planning to move over in January, but she said she was too busy with work to "babysit" me until May.

Could be serious. Have you considered taking her to a proctologist? Sounds like she might have an arthropod lodged in her colon.

[cstaylor]

Oh, I have to save ~$10k for Japanese tuition and to get a STUDENT visa. Yeah, she was really subtle on tha visa thing....

Kick her to the curb.

[GridReaper]

Kick her to the curb.

Nah, we discussed this over drinks over the weekend and she admits she has been a bit demanding. We'll see if her attitude changes now that I am back in Hawaii.

Plus, an actual divorce would be just an exercise of definition at this point since we live apart from each other. I'll give it try next year and see if our situation improves.

Plus, all the miles I rake up every year gets me on JAL's Crystal JMB program. Although, flying back and forth 4-6 times a year can be quite costly.

[mrmachine]

student visa? aren't you married?

[cstaylor]

Plus, an actual divorce would be just an exercise of definition at this point since we live apart from each other. I'll give it try next year and see if our situation improves.

Well, are you getting anything out of this marriage? She must be quite the looker to marry you, then demand that you get on a student visa, which would require you to clock 30+ hours a week in class.

Have you filed her green card paperwork yet?

[Samurai_Jerk]

Kick her to the curb.

Nah, we discussed this over drinks over the weekend and she admits she has been a bit demanding. We'll see if her attitude changes now that I am back in Hawaii.

Plus, an actual divorce would be just an exercise of definition at this point since we live apart from each other. I'll give it try next year and see if our situation improves.

Plus, all the miles I rake up every year gets me on JAL's Crystal JMB program. Although, flying back and forth 4-6 times a year can be quite costly.

No offense, dude, but you are being a pussy. She doesn't just need to be kicked to the curb, she need to be kicked off the curb and into an oncoming bus. Don't put up with that shit.

[GridReaper]

Well, are you getting anything out of this marriage?

I was, but she drastically changed just a few months ago. So, this problem is fairly recent. I am trying to adjust to her new perspective while sharing my own. I am not going kiss my marriage goodbye because she is having a J-chick mid-life crisis.

She must be quite the looker to marry you, then demand that you get on a student visa, which would require you to clock 30+ hours a week in class.

30 hours? That's ~6 hours/day learning Japanese.... Oh gawd, why did I waste my time in college learning German and French?

you filed her green card paperwork yet?

We got denied, due to insufficient amount of evidence and she really isn't interested. I really should redo the process with more photos and whatnot just to overcome any future obstacles.

[GridReaper]

No offense, dude, but you are being a pussy. She doesn't just need to be kicked to the curb, she need to be kicked off the curb and into an oncoming bus. Don't put up with that shit.

Relax. I believe marriages involve maintenance. I won't just quit because we just hit a rough patch.

I'll let someone else give in and add to the rising divorce statistics. I would rather work on improving my marriage first.

[FG Lurker]

It's perfectly reasonable for a woman not to want you to have dinner alone with another woman. Spending time alone witht the opposite sex is the real slippery slope. Men an women cannot truly be friends (unless the guy is gay). It's all spelled out in the Ladder Theory: http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

The Ladder Theory is a crock of shit.

Both the ladder theory and your comments above are generalizations of all men and all women. Do you really think that all men are the same and that all women are the same? And if so, why is that different from people who think all Japanese are the same, all Americans are the same, all Chinese are the same?

Coming from someone who got upset because a Korean convenience store owner assumed he couldn't use chopsticks, I find this more than mildly hypocritical.

[Samurai_Jerk]

It's perfectly reasonable for a woman not to want you to have dinner alone with another woman. Spending time alone witht the opposite sex is the real slippery slope. Men an women cannot truly be friends (unless the guy is gay). It's all spelled out in the Ladder Theory: http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

The Ladder Theory is a crock of shit.

Both the ladder theory and your comments above are generalizations of all men and all women. Do you really think that all men are the same and that all women are the same? And if so, why is that different from people who think all Japanese are the same, all Americans are the same, all Chinese are the same?

Coming from someone who got upset because a Korean convenience store owner assumed he couldn't use chopsticks, I find this more than mildly hypocritical.

Nothing is always true, but many things are generally true. And I would say that what I said is generally true. Most guys I know would say the ladder theory is true. Maybe you're the exception to the rule. But that's what everybody claims. Again, if you are hanging out alone with women I think it's perfectly reasonable for your partner to be uncomfortable or suspicious. Unless maybe they're all little old ladies buying teacher dinner as a thank you.

The fact is, even if you start out with the best of intentions, putting yourself in a situation where something can happen just makes things more dangerous. People love to say "Well I would never do that." Then they end up doing it.

BTW, I never said I was upset at the shop owner's reaction. Just surprised. I guess I was amused too.